Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Secretary of Interior proposes privatizing National Park campgrounds
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joker
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PostFri Jun 16, 2017 6:13 pm 
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Ski
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PostFri Jun 16, 2017 6:27 pm 
I guess if you can afford to cruise around the country in a $300K motor home getting 8 MPG on the highway like the couple in the interview, paying a little more for a campsite at a National Park is no big deal, huh? dizzy.gif How about stop cutting the funding appropriation to NPS annually (as has been been happening for the last few decades) and pony up the bucks to pay for the deferred maintenance? Sounds to me like a much better idea than paying $300K daily for security at Trump Tower in NYC.

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Randito
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PostFri Jun 16, 2017 6:33 pm 
H'mm Typical KOA "tent site" ~ $45 / night Mt Rainier Cougar Rock campground "tent site" $20 / night USFS typical campground "tent site" $16 / night Also I've camped at a few KOA's when nothing else was available -- they pack the sites a lot tighter -- often no separation between sites. So when "Cougar Rock" campground gets renamed "Trump Campground at Cougar Rock" -- what will the fee be ? $120 / night -- will the toilet seat be gold plated ?

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Randito
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PostFri Jun 16, 2017 6:35 pm 
Ski wrote:
$300K motor home getting 8 MPG
More like 4 MPG -- and thats with diesel.

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Ski
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PostFri Jun 16, 2017 6:55 pm 
^ I originally put "4" in that post and after thinking about it called a buddy of mine who drives one of those behemoths and he told me it averaged about 8 or 9 mpg on the highway if he kept his foot out of it. And it is gasoline powered, not diesel... as I recall about a 32-footer with a pop-out on the driver's side.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Schroder
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PostFri Jun 16, 2017 7:34 pm 
National Forest and National Parks Campground operations have been privatized for a long time. Recreation.gov is contracted out, as I found out when I tried to get a refund on an Enchantments permit during a fire and had to deal with some lady working out of her home in Quebec. The State Parks system uses the same contractor as B.C. Parks for their reservation system in Canada. This hasn't given over ownership, however, and I can't imagine why the government would want to do so considering the arrangement they have now.

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PostFri Jun 16, 2017 9:37 pm 
^ True, but I don't trust the current administration any more than I could pick any of them up and toss them across the street. Something tells me this is really greasy slippery slope stuff that needs to be stopped in its tracks. Just my lousy two cents, as always.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Gregory
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PostSat Jun 17, 2017 6:13 am 
Secretary of the Interior and Montana native Ryan Zinke is proposing that private companies play a LARGER role in national park campgrounds. https://careers.delawarenorth.com/us/en/search-results?keywords=Kalaloch

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treeswarper
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PostSat Jun 17, 2017 7:07 am 
So Gregory, you are trying to start a conspiracy theory about a casino taking over a National Park? Or is your link screwed up?

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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joker
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PostSat Jun 17, 2017 10:55 am 
Schroder wrote:
National Forest and National Parks Campground operations have been privatized for a long time. Recreation.gov is contracted out, as I found out when I tried to get a refund on an Enchantments permit during a fire and had to deal with some lady working out of her home in Quebec. The State Parks system uses the same contractor as B.C. Parks for their reservation system in Canada. This hasn't given over ownership, however, and I can't imagine why the government would want to do so considering the arrangement they have now.
I can imagine why some would want to move from just having reservations and some other aspects of campgrounds run by contractors (to be clear, many aspects are still run by the Park Service at many places - e.g. while out at Kalaloch recently it was Park employees coming by each day to deal with bathrooms and empty the self-registration post contents). But rather than speculate on motives, I think it's more interesting to ask what the results of this will be, both in terms of actual net effect on the park budgets (i.e. does this even come close to countering the Parks budget cut being proposed, let alone the existing maintenance deficit being asserted by Zinke and others?), effect on costs to camp (what will happen to typical rates, will things like "surge pricing" on holidays and other busy times be allowed, etc.), on experience in getting access (i.e. will existing first-come-first-served campgrounds go to reservation systems? as just one of multiple relevant questions), and the nature of the campgrounds experience (i.e. will the character change? what percent will be given over to higher-margin "glamping" type setups, etc.). As someone who is entering a phase of life in which I'm looking forward to being able to spend more time on road trips, I'm looking forward to spending a lot more quality time in places like NP campgrounds - I've had some great experiences with them in the past year. I do not want to see their nature change in ways that make them in any way more exclusive or "polished" and I'd like to see plenty of first-come-first-served opportunities remain for road-trippers who want some flexibility in their itineraries. And I'd like to see the Parks budgets net out well here. Our National Parks have been called "America's best idea," and the nature of the campground experience is a significant part of what makes them that.

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grannyhiker
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PostSat Jun 17, 2017 11:24 am 
At least here in the Mt. Hood National Forest, nearly all the USFS campgrounds are run by concessionaires. And if there's a trailhead at the campground, many of the concessionaires won't accept the NW Forest Pass or my Golden Age/Senior Pass for parking.

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Schroder
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PostSat Jun 17, 2017 11:47 am 
joker wrote:
while out at Kalaloch recently it was Park employees coming by each day to deal with bathrooms and empty the self-registration post contents)
Are you sure they were park employees and not concession employees in park uniforms? I've been quite dissatisfied by the reservation system, particularly with the State Parks. All the National Park Campgrounds I've been to in the past 5 years have been reservation only. I'm totally bewildered that they can't manage the system with their own employees rather than contracting out of the country for those services.

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joker
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PostSat Jun 17, 2017 12:25 pm 
Good question. No, I'm not sure. They might have been vendor employees in park uniforms. Which in any case is different from the folks staffing the RV park in Grand Canyon village (the only place I could get a short-lead-time reservation in the area for my camper van) who wore their employer's (the concessionaire running the campground) clothing rather than park uniforms. Worth noting that my campground fee for those two nights was higher than many motels along my road trip route (perhaps if I'd had a tv to hook up to the 250 cable channels on the wire next to my van I'd have gotten a little more of the value they were charging for, but of course most of it is just smart "charging what the market will bear" by a private company). I've enjoyed first-come-first-served camps in the past year in Oly NP, Capitol Reef, Canyonlands, and Zion. In all cases by Oly, this involved some timing strategy to secure camps at relatively busing times for the parks, but it wasn't too hard except for Zion right before Memorial Day weekend last year (7AM arrival was almost too late - I think about ten cars behind me in the incredibly long time was out of luck). One thing I appreciate about these campgrounds, aside from convenience for me in terms of itinerary flexibility, is the nature of many of the other campers who show up - e.g. the folks from all across the country who are wide-eyed on their big road trips to see America who would not be there if they'd needed to reserve ahead (they've have been 20 miles out of the park at some dingy private campground).

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PostSat Jun 17, 2017 6:35 pm 
Grannyhiker wrote:
At least here in the Mt. Hood National Forest, nearly all the USFS campgrounds are run by concessionaires. And if there's a trailhead at the campground, many of the concessionaires won't accept the NW Forest Pass or my Golden Age/Senior Pass for parking.
I ran into that same issue in Arizona. Definitely pissed me off. "National Forest" but my passes were not recognized. Even more irritating was as I was discussing the situation with the gatekeeper, he penalized me by putting me in a wait state for "no parking", even though I could see a couple of parking spots from where he was holding me. While I was waiting there, I noticed a sign above the guy's head saying the National Park pass should at least get a discount. They guy got even more peeved when I pointed that out. So, for a short hike I had to pay a significant entrance fee, and wait quite awhile. The guy was major attitude from the moment we pulled up to his booth. Nice to know that will be the norm now?

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Gregory
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PostSun Jun 18, 2017 5:03 am 
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