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Ski
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PostMon Jul 10, 2017 12:21 pm 
^ yes. TIGHAR page goes into excrutiating detail attempting to support the argument that a scrap of aluminum found near Gardner Island (Nikumaroro) is from Earhart's aircraft Wikipedia page on Gardner Island (Nikumaroro) What's not mentioned in any of this discussion are the vast distances between these tiny little "islands" in the South Pacific, many of which are not much more than skinny atolls around salt lagoons, like Nikumaroro, which is 400 miles away from Howland Island. That's about the same distance as driving from Seattle to Grants Pass, Oregon. Everything in between is ocean. Hundreds and hundreds of miles of ocean. There's a reason why the islands in the South Pacific were the last places on the planet to be populated by mammals (if any made it to them at all) or humans.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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InFlight
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PostMon Jul 10, 2017 12:39 pm 
thunderhead wrote:
The MF radio direction finders can fail pretty badly even with modern gear.
Modern transport airplanes still have two Automatic Direction Finders installed; but they're mostly just used to listen to AM radio broadcasts. Normally with three VHF and two HF radios it's hard to loose all communications. The Flight Management System (Navigation) is based on Inertial Reference, DME auto tuning(VHF), and GPS.

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PostMon Jul 10, 2017 1:32 pm 
Quote:
Modern transport airplanes still have two Automatic Direction Finders installed
Some do, especially for remote ops, buts its backup gear and isnt used much, especially in more populated areas. I think some airlines are starting to not even bother, and many private aircraft certainly don't use them more. I know I'd divert or delay before shooting an NDB approach in real instrument conditions. I'd trust my own homemade unsurveyed GPS layover long before I trusted an NDB, and it aint close.

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InFlight
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PostMon Jul 10, 2017 5:19 pm 
thunderhead wrote:
Quote:
Modern transport airplanes still have two Automatic Direction Finders installed
Some do, especially for remote ops, buts its backup gear and isnt used much, especially in more populated areas. I think some airlines are starting to not even bother, and many private aircraft certainly don't use them more. I know I'd divert or delay before shooting an NDB approach in real instrument conditions. I'd trust my own homemade unsurveyed GPS layover long before I trusted an NDB, and it aint close.
In the US and Europe these ADFs are almost entirely used to listen to baseball, football, and soccer games on AM radio. There are a lot of places that have no Nav Aids. Russia for example only has a few DMEs outside Moscow. Almost all the other airports are NDB.

“I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately...” ― Henry David Thoreau
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gb
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PostMon Jul 10, 2017 7:48 pm 
Just two questions for the naysayers - What about the photo - not a digital image, a photo? I would agree that in as much as it was a photo the History Channel folks went into some dumb stuff about image noise, blah, blah, blah as if it was a digital image from 1937 or thereabouts. Question 2: Why would the Marshall Islands issue four stamps regarding Earhart 30 years ago if the Earhart story had nothing to do with the Marshall Islands.
You can dismiss the witnesses, three of whom had the same story many years ago. But that doesn't seem logical. They were flying in cloudy weather and using Noonan's sight based navigation. Could they end up far off, ? Did notes/communications from Earhart indicate she planned to turn back with four hours of fuel left?

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Backpacker Joe
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PostMon Jul 10, 2017 9:23 pm 
Ok, I get it. What I want to know is, what about the NEW Earhart? Flt 370? That is the new AE. hope it doesnt rain down on us one day full of explosives.

"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide." — Abraham Lincoln
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PostMon Jul 10, 2017 11:16 pm 
Quote:
You can dismiss the witnesses, three of whom had the same story many years ago. But that doesn't seem logical.
Far more logical to dismiss some second hand stories of untrained random farmers than the trained crew of the coast guard cutter. Earhart was near the cutter, or the cutter would not have heard them clearly. Now theres a host of other reasons that makes the marshall islands conspiracy theories ridiculous, including the near impossibility of noonan being that far off and the near impossibility of japan keeping such a thing secret after the war, but the radio communications with the cutter, limitted though they were, is absolute proof they were close by. Probably within line of site of the cutter(or more specifically the top of her radio mast) at some point, perhaps just over the horizon.

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PostTue Jul 11, 2017 4:48 am 
I think the bottom line is there isn't enough evidence to conclusively support any theory of exactly what happened. However the human mind prefers answers over uncertainty -- so the history channel executives figured they could produce a show that enough people would watch that they could sell some advertising. Next year they may very well produce a new show pursuing a different theory. If there is controversy over the theory that gets picked up in the media - well that's just free advertising for the show that will drive up ratings and ad revenue.

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PostTue Jul 11, 2017 4:52 am 
As to the eyewitness accounts, remember that there was a massive search effort following their disappearance and lots of media coverage. So the eyewitnesses may very well have been folks very willing to tell reports something they wanted to hear.

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PostTue Jul 11, 2017 4:58 am 
Gahhh, I am throat punching myself cuz I can't remember which book I read about the last flight. I guess it was TIGHAR and Gillispie. Anyway, in that book, a very creepy foreshadowing on the West to East trans-Atlantic hop from Brazil to Senegal. They missed the runway too far north. They got lucky, chose a southerly hunt, and found it, but on the tarmac, Earhardt asked Noonan, "Fred, why were we so far north? What put us north?" Noonan replied, "I don't know." That hop wasn't nearly as long as the Howland leg and finding the coast of continental Africa is a lot easier than finding an island with max. elevation of 20 feet! Tom PS: as I remember the book was solid until he started extrapolating his Marshall Island theory??

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gb
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PostTue Jul 11, 2017 8:37 am 
thunderhead wrote:
Far more logical to dismiss some second hand stories of untrained random farmers than the trained crew of the coast guard cutter. Earhart was near the cutter, or the cutter would not have heard them clearly. Now theres a host of other reasons that makes the marshall islands conspiracy theories ridiculous, including the near impossibility of noonan being that far off and the near impossibility of japan keeping such a thing secret after the war, but the radio communications with the cutter, limitted though they were, is absolute proof they were close by. Probably within line of site of the cutter(or more specifically the top of her radio mast) at some point, perhaps just over the horizon.
This is of course gibberish. A farmer with brown skin could easily note a white person has unusual skin, and could tell a female and male. Your comment smacks of racism. Are you a racist?

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DIYSteve
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PostTue Jul 11, 2017 10:05 am 
gb wrote:
What about the photo - not a digital image, a photo?
A significant leap of faith is required to conclude that Earhart and Noonan are in the photo. That the team of experts manifests certitude is meaningless. Having dealt with hundreds of witnesses in 30+ years of law practice I can tell you that people who exhibit certitude about a factual matter are more often than not mistaken.
gb wrote:
Why would the Marshall Islands issue four stamps regarding Earhart 30 years ago if the Earhart story had nothing to do with the Marshall Islands.
Folklore. American and many other nations have issues stamps based on folklore for which there is no factual basis. Myth often trumps evidence. 77% of Americans believe in angels. 25% of Americans believe the sun revolves around the earth. 40% of American reject the theory of evolution. Oliver Stone made a movie called JFK based on a bizarre factually unsupported theory concocted by a quack prosecutor looking for fame, yet Stone presented it as indisputable fact. I saw JFK at the Guild 45 (RIP) soon after its premier. At the end of the movie a majority of the audience applauded. A guy sitting next to me said "Thank God, now we know the truth."

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PostTue Jul 11, 2017 10:35 am 
gb wrote:
"Why would the Marshall Islands issue four stamps regarding Earhart 30 years ago..."
Why would the US Postal Service issue a stamp with Richard M. Nixon's mug on it 20 years after he resigned from the office of the Presidency? (The larger question, of course, is why the Richard Nixon 32-cent stamp has become a collectors' item.) Why would Malaysia issue a postage stamp that glowed in the dark? Just a quick glance at that page makes it pretty clear that countries around the world make crazy postage stamps. So the answer to your question about the stamps is "Why not?"

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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DIYSteve
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PostTue Jul 11, 2017 10:41 am 

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Ski
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PostTue Jul 11, 2017 10:50 am 
DIYSteve wrote:
A significant leap of faith is required to conclude that Earhart and Noonan are in the photo.
I looked at that photo. At least twice. It shows what appears to be the back side of a person sitting down. So.... my question is: how do you identify a person in an old, fuzzy photo when all you can see is the back of their head?

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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