Forum Index > Stewardship > Mountain Goat Management Plan Olympic National PARK 07/24/17
Previous :: Next Topic  
Author Message
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 9568 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
  Top

><((((°>
PostMon Jul 24, 2017 9:06 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Monday July 24, 2017 08:04 PDT

For Immediate Release 

Public Invited to Provide Input on Draft Olympic National Park Mountain Goat Management Plan

Public Meetings Scheduled; Comments Accepted Through September 26


The National Park Service, the U.S. Forest Service and the Washington State Department of Fish and Wildlife invite the public to review and provide input about proposed alternatives for managing non-native mountain goats in the Olympic Mountains.

The draft alternatives are described and analyzed in the Draft Mountain Goat Management Plan Environmental Impact Statement (EIS), which was released today and can be reviewed at https://parkplanning.nps.gov/OLYMgoat. The plan’s purpose is to allow Olympic National Park to reduce or eliminate environmental impacts from non-native mountain goats, and reduce potential public safety issues associated with the goats’ presence in the park.

“We are pleased and grateful for our close collaboration with the Forest Service and the Washington State Department of Fish and Wildlife in developing the draft plan,” said Acting Olympic National Park Superintendent Lee Taylor. “Mountain goats are not native to the Olympic Peninsula and cause impacts to park resources and create safety risks for park visitors.”

The plan alternatives include actions proposed to occur within Olympic National Park and Olympic National Forest, and associated actions proposed by the Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife to translocate mountain goats to the Mt. Baker Snoqualmie and Okanogan Wenatchee National Forests in the Cascades.

A population survey of mountain goats in the Olympic Mountains conducted in summer of 2016 showed that the population increased an average of eight percent annually from 2004-2016. If this rate of population growth were sustained, the population would increase by 45 percent over the next five years. At the same time, mountain goats are native to the North Cascades, but exist in low numbers in many areas. Both the U.S. Forest Service and the Washington State Department of Fish and Wildlife have long been interested in restoring mountain goats to these depleted areas.

The National Park Service announced its plan to develop a Mountain Goat Management Plan/EIS in July 2014. Public workshops were held in August 2014 and public comments were invited. Approximately 100 pieces of correspondence were received and used in developing the Draft Mountain Goat Management Plan EIS.

A series of public meetings are scheduled for mid-August and the public is invited to participate.

Monday 8/14: Olympia
Olympic National Forest Supervisor’s Office
1835 Black Lake Blvd. SW
Olympia, WA 98512
360-956-2300
Time: 5-7 p.m.

Tuesday 8/15: Port Angeles
Olympic National Park Visitor Center
3002 Mount Angeles Road
Port Angeles, WA 98362
360-565-3004
Time: 6-8 p.m.

Wednesday 8/16: Everett
Everett Public Library Auditorium
2702 Hoyt Ave.
Everett, WA 98201
425-257-8000
Time: 5-7 p.m.

Thursday 8/17: Seattle
Seattle Public Library
(Douglass-Truth Branch)
2300 Yesler Way
Seattle, WA 98122
260-684-4704
Time: 5-7 p.m.

There will be a short 15 minute presentation at 5:15 p.m. each evening, except 6:15 p.m. for the Port Angeles meeting, followed by an open house where staff will be present to answer questions.

This comment period also serves as the final designated comment period to provide specific written comments to be eligible to object to the U.S. Forest Service decisions on this project. The opportunity to comment ends 60 days following the date of the publication of the EPA Notice Of Availability in the Federal Register.

The draft EIS is available for review and comment at: http://parkplanning.nps.gov/olymgoat. Copies of the draft EIS will also be available at public libraries in Darrington, Enumclaw, Granite Falls, North Bend, Sedro-Woolley, Skykomish, Sultan, Aberdeen, Amanda Park, Hoquiam, Hoodsport, Forks, Port Angeles and Port Townsend.  Comments will also be accepted during scheduled public meetings or can be mailed or hand-delivered to: Superintendent, Olympic National Park, 600 East Park Avenue, Port Angeles, WA 98362. To ensure your comments are included in this process, they must be entered into the above referenced website or postmarked by September 26.

Comments will not be accepted by fax, email, or in any manner other than those listed above. Bulk comments in hard copy or electronic formats submitted on behalf of others will not be accepted. Before including your address, phone number, email address, or other personal identifying information in your comment, you should be aware that your entire comment—including your personal identifying information—may be made publicly available at any time. While you can ask us in your comment to withhold your personal identifying information from public review, we cannot guarantee that we will be able to do so.

-NPS-

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
InFlight
coated in DEET



Joined: 20 May 2015
Posts: 538 | TRs
Location: Seattle area
InFlight
  Top

coated in DEET
PostMon Jul 24, 2017 10:50 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Cutting to the preferred option...

Alternative D: Combination of Capture and Translocation and Lethal Removal (Preferred Alternative)
Under alternative D, initial management would involve the capture and translocation of as many mountain goats as possible, similar to alternative B, followed by a switch to lethal removal, similar to alternative C. Initial management activities under alternative D could last 3 to 5 years, with most of the activity in years 1 to 4. Some lethal removal could occur as early as the second capture bout in year 1, but only for those mountain goats that are determined to be uncatchable. The timing and duration of capture and translocation operations within a year would be the same 2-week management periods as described for alternative B. Translocation operations under alternative D would be identical to those described for alternative B.
Similar to alternative C, it is anticipated that initial management under alternative D would remove approximately 90% of the mountain goat population, or approximately 625 to 675 mountain goats, and carcasses of those mountain goats that are lethally removed would be left on the landscape. It is anticipated that the success rate for capturing mountain goats would diminish over time and management would likely switch to almost exclusively lethal removal during year 3 or year 4 of the initial management, but could begin as early as year 2. By year 5, most mountain goats encountered would be lethally removed.

--------------
“I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately...”  ― Henry David Thoreau
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Pyrites
Member
Member


Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Posts: 1071 | TRs
Location: South Sound
Pyrites
  Top

Member
PostMon Jul 24, 2017 4:35 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Did they talk with state, provincial, or tribal game departments beyond WA State to see if there is interest in the goats further afield?


My experience with rifles is limited to what was normal for civilians thirty years ago. Does the military have silencers that would work on regular 0.30 caliber rifles? Would it be legal to for federal employees to use these, on some limited basis, for this project only? Rifles echo through a whole basin.

Also, why not increase the number of tags available on the FS areas?
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 9568 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
  Top

><((((°>
PostMon Jul 24, 2017 5:10 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
I have not yet had a chance to look through the EIS, but let me submit:

They previously attempted capture/translocation on several occasions, and the net result was not as hoped; the operations endangered Park personnel and resulted in a number of goat fatalities (presumably from goats falling to their deaths.)

I have to wonder if this "preferred alternative" is in part to appease those opposed to the outright lethal removal of these non-native animals that wreak havoc with endemic species of flora in upland meadows.

I am not the least bit concerned about any noise from high-powered rifles. Not sure if a .30 caliber rifle round is enough to take down a full-grown billy - I suppose Dave Workman would be better able to address that question.

As for increasing the number of available tags on those ONF lands where there are resident goats, I would ask why wasn't that done long ago?

The Park is well aware they have a problem with the goats. They cannot comply with their Congressional mandate of "protect and preserve the native flora and fauna" with the goats proliferating at the rate they are, and it has been demonstrated on more than one occasion they pose a safety hazard for Park visitors.

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
RodF
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 2445 | TRs
Location: Sequim WA
RodF
  Top

Member
PostTue Jul 25, 2017 11:48 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Pyrites wrote:
Did they talk with state, provincial, or tribal game departments beyond WA State to see if there is interest in the goats further afield?

I believe they did, but this gets complicated and expensive.  There's a risk of transmitting diseases or parasites in the translocated goats, so each has to have a vet exam and be accompanied by a vet to manage stress and risk of injury throughout transport.  So its very expensive, and only USFS and WDFW were able and willing to take this on.

Pyrites wrote:
Also, why not increase the number of tags available on the FS areas?

This is discussed in DEIS chapter 1.  Trophy tag hunters might be able take a few more from those two isolated sub-populations in FS areas, but they have low success rate so would have a negligible impact in achieving the overall project goal.

--------------
"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated.  It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Pyrites
Member
Member


Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Posts: 1071 | TRs
Location: South Sound
Pyrites
  Top

Member
PostWed Jul 26, 2017 9:47 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
WDFW has increased the number of goat tags on the east side of the Olympics to six. They note this area has a low number of goats. It is the only area that they don't discourage killing a nanny. It's referred to as a 'conflict reduction' area in the regs.

Only the Goat Rocks/Tieton area has up to five. All others 3 or less.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Stefan
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 4403 | TRs

Stefan
  Top

Member
PostThu Jul 27, 2017 10:44 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
I think the ONP needs to work with WDFW and sell hunting tags for the mountain goats within ONP.  Money would then be split between ONP and WDFW.  This would definitely reduce the costs from all proposals for ONP for mitigating this environment issue.  Let WDFW manage the game units as a contractor.  Just like other national parks have contractors to complete various services.

--------------
Art is an adventure.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 9568 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
  Top

><((((°>
PostFri Jul 28, 2017 8:38 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Friday July 28, 2017 08:58 PDT

See also new thread on Mountain Goat Management Plan at Olympic National FOREST here

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
RandyHiker
Snarky Member



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 5892 | TRs
Location: Mobile
RandyHiker
  Top

Snarky Member
PostFri Jul 28, 2017 9:03 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
If the goal is extermination from the Olympics,  would not simply making it "open season" for hunting and no limit on tags accomplish that goal at minimum cost and management overhead?

Are other areas of WA hurting for goat populations?  Seems like relocating some from the Enchantments might be useful..
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon



Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 1907 | TRs
Location: North Dakota
moonspots
  Top

Happy Curmudgeon
PostFri Jul 28, 2017 4:25 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Pyrites wrote:
Does the military have silencers that would work on regular 0.30 caliber rifles? Would it be legal to for federal employees to use these, on some limited basis, for this project only? Rifles echo through a whole basin.

Yes, they do. Fish and Wildlife uses them here (.308) occasionally to deal with moose on the local airport, that is mostly "in town". Quite effective.

--------------
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon



Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 1907 | TRs
Location: North Dakota
moonspots
  Top

Happy Curmudgeon
PostFri Jul 28, 2017 4:31 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski wrote:
Not sure if a .30 caliber rifle round is enough to take down a full-grown billy - I suppose Dave Workman would be better able to address that question.

Yes it would. And even though I'm not much of a hunter, I would certainly support this plan. I was somewhat surprised to see a full sized goat watching me and another guy descend the lateral moraine on Mt Olympus last summer, especially after reading of the guy who was gored in ONP some time earlier.

Billygoat Gruff didn't seem too pleased to see us on "his" trail. It wasn't 2 minutes after we passed his location that we saw him.  paranoid.gif

--------------
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Humptulips
Member
Member


Joined: 08 Nov 2012
Posts: 234 | TRs

Humptulips
  Top

Member
PostFri Jul 28, 2017 5:06 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
moonspots wrote:
Pyrites wrote:
Does the military have silencers that would work on regular 0.30 caliber rifles? Would it be legal to for federal employees to use these, on some limited basis, for this project only? Rifles echo through a whole basin.

Yes, they do. Fish and Wildlife uses them here (.308) occasionally to deal with moose on the local airport, that is mostly "in town". Quite effective.

In fact it is completely legal for anyone who legally owns a silencer to use it hunting. A bit of red tape to buy one but once you have it you could use it hunting.
30 caliber takes in a lot of territory. All the way from rounds to wimpy to hunt any big game to grizzly bear medicine.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
meck
Member
Member


Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 728 | TRs

meck
  Top

Member
PostFri Jul 28, 2017 6:48 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
One semi-problematic aspect of the extermination option is the public relations.  I was about 10 minutes from the summit of Mt Ellinor about 1.5 years ago when a hunter made the choice to shoot a goat about 100 yards north east of the summit at an inopportune time; it was a Saturday morning w/ hikers crawling all over the summit block watching.  Boy, you would have thought he'd killed a child from all of the comments of the hikers up there. It was an eye-opening experience for me to see how little exposure most of those people had to one aspect of how "meat ends up on one's meal plate", is society at large that insulated? If so, its scary.

If the NP or FS open this plan up to hunters they may want to warn them about timing their hunting trips to not coincide with the times when the urban folks are up there.... (e.g. stick to the weekdays, and off the super-popular/overused routes)

--------------
*pain is just your body telling you "you're doing it wrong"*
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 9568 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
  Top

><((((°>
PostFri Jul 28, 2017 7:16 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
^ I would posit that a clean shot from a high-powered hunting rifle is a far more humane way to kill an animal than the methods used for processing beef, pork, lamb, or chicken.
Only in the last century has the public become so completely disconnected from the reality of death - whether human or animal.

Just because you can drive your car up to Safeway and buy a nice New York strip all packaged up pretty on a polystyrene tray and wrapped with plastic doesn't mean that some poor dumb cow didn't get his brains bashed in with a captive bolt unit somewhere along the way.

Sorry, I just don't have any sympathy for non-native goats who are a detriment to and threaten endemic flora, and moreover pose a hazard to hikers at both ONP and ONF.

In this particular instance, ONP and ONF wringing their hands about "public perception" and "public relations" has resulted only in the problem getting worse; the goats continue to multiply while the administration back-burners the issue and passes the problem on to the next administration.

Enough already. Kill them and get it done with.

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
meck
Member
Member


Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 728 | TRs

meck
  Top

Member
PostFri Jul 28, 2017 7:26 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
@ ski: I don't disagree.

--------------
*pain is just your body telling you "you're doing it wrong"*
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
  Display:     All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Forum Index > Stewardship > Mountain Goat Management Plan Olympic National PARK 07/24/17
  Happy Birthday Flash Gordon, raz2sea!
Jump to:   
Search this topic:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
   Use Disclaimer Powered by phpBB Privacy Policy