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John Morrow
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PostThu Jul 27, 2017 8:10 am 
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treeswarper wrote:
If I remember correctly, Silver Fir will have needles with a whitish (silver) underside. 

Indeed, on each needle two white stomata bands on underside and no white on top.  I see few nobles here on the east side but I believe they typically have two stomata bands on both the top side and bottom side of each needle.  But I have been told that is not conclusive for diagnosis.

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treeswarper
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PostThu Jul 27, 2017 8:14 am 
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Another memory coming back and it would not fit into leave no trace forestry.  If you take a sliver of bark off a Subalpine fir you will see dots/tiny holes underneath.  We used hatchets but a knife will do in a pinch.  I do not recommend this method for areas along trails.

You'll also get pitch all over your knife.

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Kim Brown
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PostThu Jul 27, 2017 8:19 am 
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I edited an earlier post re: noble fir. Their extent isn't that far north, so I'm thinking silver fir. Doesn't mean it's not an anomaly. (I saw a sitka on Tonga Ridge, which is several miles beyond their extent, but not tooo too far beyond).

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John Morrow
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PostThu Jul 27, 2017 8:29 am 
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treeswarper wrote:
You'll also get pitch all over your knife.

Then your fingers, probably your shirt/pants, and then you got a mess I have never found a good way to clean up!  Hydro peroxide, alcohol, peanut butter, white gas, spit...nuthin' works for me!

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“Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?”-Mary Oliver

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Schenk
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PostThu Jul 27, 2017 8:37 am 
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WD-40 or butter have worked for me with most of my interactions with conifer pitch.
I have heard margarine works too...but I have never buy margarine.

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Kim Brown
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PostThu Jul 27, 2017 8:43 am 
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I put dirt on the pitch if it's on my hands or clothes. That way it doesn't bug me for the rest of the trip, and by the time I get home I have forgotten about it and it doesn't matter.

A tool, though, is different. In the days white gas stoves were prevalent, wellsir, Bob's your uncle.

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Sculpin
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PostThu Jul 27, 2017 9:00 am 
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Kim Brown wrote:
re: noble fir. Their extent isn't that far north, so I'm thinking silver fir.

"A" and "B" are mountain hemlock needles but the trunk with resin blisters is true fir.  The fir needles are subalpine fir, not silver.  Silver fir has needles along the branch, hiding the top of the branch.

Noble fir has not been found north of Hwy 2 AFAIK.  You can see it growing in the old clearcut up the Trout Creek trail in the Icicle drainage, I have never seen it north of there.

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Kim Brown
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PostThu Jul 27, 2017 9:03 am 
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Thanks John & sculpin; you're the best.

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GaliWalker
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PostThu Jul 27, 2017 9:16 am 
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The needles in A look like a hemlock, but the bark photo is all wrong for hemlock. Not sure if the photos match...? If so, this isn't hemlock.

The needles and bark for Tree B both match for hemlock.

Tree D is some type of spruce, I'm not sure which particular one.

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Sculpin
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PostThu Jul 27, 2017 9:27 am 
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GaliWalker wrote:
Tree D is some type of spruce, I'm not sure which particular one.

I disagree.  Spruce needles (both Sitka and Engelmann) are stiff and pointed; a good test is if you press your fingertip against the tip of the needle, it will hurt.  A fir needle will always bend and not hurt.  These needles have rounded tips.  They look exactly like subalpine fir needles to me.

The bark damage on "D" is most likely from a bear.  Porcupine damage looks different and is typically higher up on the tree.

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treeswarper
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PostThu Jul 27, 2017 2:41 pm 
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Tree D looks like Subalpine Fir.  If we were out in the woods, if you grabbed a branch and said OUCH, it would be spruce.  Spruce has pointy stiff needles that hurt.  Spruce bark is kind of rough and guess I'd call it platy?  Ah, the scaling manual calls it bark that looks like scales.

A sure way to figure out if a tree is a Doug fir, besides looking for cones on the ground, is to look and see if the buds are pointy on the ends.  True fir will have rounded buds.  Of course, this works only in the fall, winter and early spring.  If you chop into the bark, it should look freckled and kind of corky.

This book is an excellent book for anyone interested in log scaling.  And for more tree ID info, go to page 74 where it tells how to tell tree species by the bark.  Pictures are even in color.  No Noble Fir included though.

Tire fir have cones that explode before hitting the ground so you won't find their cones unless a rodent has clipped them off.

Go to page 74

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treeswarper
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PostThu Jul 27, 2017 2:47 pm 
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John Morrow wrote:
treeswarper wrote:
You'll also get pitch all over your knife.

Then your fingers, probably your shirt/pants, and then you got a mess I have never found a good way to clean up!  Hydro peroxide, alcohol, peanut butter, white gas, spit...nuthin' works for me!

Clothes stay pitchy until it wears off from wear and repeated washings.  I have used Jungle Juice and WD 40 to clean D tape and Logger tapes with.  The latter also lubricates them.  I prefer WD 40 but the bug dope was used when nothing else was available.

For pitch on skin--mayonaise, butter, margarine also work and might be better in the long run than WD40.  Rub it on pitchy patches of skin then use soap and water and you may need to repeat.  I imagine hand lotion might also work.  Anything greasy seems to work.

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GaliWalker
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PostThu Jul 27, 2017 7:09 pm 
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Not all spruce needles are pointy (although I've been scratched up by plenty of spruce needles). doh.gif Here's an example of a red spruce from West Virginia:


Having said that, I believe that you guys are correct and that Tree D is a subalpine fir. My understanding was that you can tell spruce and fir needles apart as follows: fir has flattened needles whereas spruce needles are rounder. I seemed to have missed this in my initial look at the needles photo of Tree D.

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treeswarper
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PostThu Jul 27, 2017 7:52 pm 
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Well, since it is Warshington here, it's safe to say that our native spruces are pointy and sharp.
An evil forester even suggested that households with babies and toddlers should get spruce Christmas trees.

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pcg
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PostThu Jul 27, 2017 8:32 pm 
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John Morrow wrote:
Then your fingers, probably your shirt/pants, and then you got a mess I have never found a good way to clean up!

turpentine
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