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Chico
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PostThu Aug 03, 2017 4:05 pm 
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Article

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NacMacFeegle
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PostThu Aug 03, 2017 4:19 pm 
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Not really anything unusual or new about this - environmental groups have been restoring over-crowded low diversity commercial forests by thinning them for decades now. What's crazy is that most logging companies haven't embraced similar management techniques that would create healthier forests and produce more and higher quality lumber.

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treeswarper
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PostSun Aug 06, 2017 2:02 pm 
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NacMacFeegle wrote:
Not really anything unusual or new about this - environmental groups have been restoring over-crowded low diversity commercial forests by thinning them for decades now. What's crazy is that most logging companies haven't embraced similar management techniques that would create healthier forests and produce more and higher quality lumber.


  Please tell me which environmental group actually owns timber land other than the Nature Conservancy.  Really.  I'd like to know

The second part of your statement is false.  Thinning is a commonly used technique and was even taught in college in the 1970s!  The large working forest in my backyard undergoes commercial and non-commercial thins. 

Logging companies seldom write the prescriptions for the land they log.  Logging companies log.  Landowners have a forest management plan that undergoes examination by the WA DNR.  That is written by either the landowner or an expert hired by the landowner...might even be a FORESTER. 

I gotta love it when some city people buy land, do what other long time land owners have been doing, but the newcomers deem it to be new and special.

Low diversity?  Explain please.  Here in Western WA lower elevation forests consisted of what is grown commercially today--Douglas fir, Western Hemlock and Western Red Cedar in my part of the world  and those are what I see in the commercial forests, when I get out of my vehicle and walk and look.  One landowner even planted our native Red Alder after they clearcut.  I guess planting it gave them a bit of a head start over nature.   Now, in some of their clearcuts, which may have been clearcut due to the presence of root rot, they have planted Western White Pine.  Hemlock and DF will seen in naturally over time.  In fact, I've always found that hemlock will seed in and grow amongst the planted DF. 

Get out and take a look.  Read some of the literature put out by industry and forestry people.  I bet they are more up to date on what is going on than the usual enviro groups who Need Your Donation.

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treeswarper
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PostMon Aug 07, 2017 4:43 am 
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http://thelens.news/2017/07/13/washington-forestland-needs-greater-mill-infrastructure-says-wildfire-committee/

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Schenk
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PostMon Aug 07, 2017 10:09 am 
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treeswarper wrote:
Get out and take a look.

I get out, I looked. Lower Western Washington forests are not the only lands being logged out there.
Been up the St Joe River, in Idaho, in the last 20 years? Especially south of the river? Mostly private timber company land around there.
No thinning...I have seen only clear cutting, and I get all around those parts. Then they spray it all with glyphosate...nothing sprouts for full season. Then after that, they replant a single species.

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treeswarper
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PostTue Aug 08, 2017 5:34 am 
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Well, Idaho is often behind the times a bit and does not have the regulations that we have here.
It is said that Warshington has the toughest forest practice laws in the country.

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trestle
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PostTue Aug 08, 2017 11:59 am 
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NacMacFeegle wrote:
environmental groups have been restoring over-crowded low diversity commercial forests by thinning them for decades now

Please provide an example as this statement seems unlikely.

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Pyrites
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PostThu Nov 09, 2017 9:12 pm 
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I can claim to have lived summers in the area you mention. Home was the old Round Top WC, the former Round Top Ranger Station, back when it was its own district.

Nothing besides an open spot now. Someone even managed to burn down a later built snowmobilers warmup shack.

Middle Sister and Snow Peak still have lookouts.

Best.
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Pyrites
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PostThu Nov 09, 2017 9:14 pm 
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And this article seems to go with the topic. One map clearly shows the private land of the Big Bottom of the Cowlitz between Randle and Packwood.

Best.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/10/why-does-famous-protector-trees-now-want-cut-some-down

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PostThu Nov 09, 2017 10:27 pm 
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^ Jack Ward Thomas wrote an essay several years ago, the main theme of which was the the Northwest Forest Plan was unsustainable.

The idea that all of Western Washington would (or should) be late-seral forest is folly; it was never that way historically (or pre-historically) due to manipulation of the landscape by both naturally occurring events and the actions of aboriginal tribesmen.

Franklin's plans might well be a means to put things back into some semblance of "balance", but if the lands management agencies are going to insist on replanting with Douglas Fir (as mentioned in the article) it's all just an exercise in futility.

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PostThu Nov 09, 2017 10:38 pm 
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I assume Dr. Franklin would have been more pleased if they planted half the unit and did nothing in the other half. Twice the common spacing was probably a near worst case scenario for his work.
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PostFri Nov 10, 2017 12:07 am 
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^ good point.

a common theme in the comments from both myself and treeswarper on timber harvesting and forest management is the dearth of open space being left.
treeswarper wants huckleberry habitat, one of the things you get when you create openings.
the other benefits of openings are mentioned in the article.

the fact is: in pre-Columbian times there were lots of openings. take a look at any of those old Osborne panoramic photos taken in the 1920s or 1930s - I have yet to see one of those photo images that did not show a lot of openings somewhere in the background.

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treeswarper
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PostFri Nov 10, 2017 12:06 pm 
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Land management agencies plant the species that fits the area.  Doug for is what would grow naturally in the coastal range out of Corvallis.  Western hemlock will seed in on its own, as might alder.
There is also a law requiring areas to meet reforestation requirements.  That would also need to be changed.

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PostFri Nov 10, 2017 12:47 pm 
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treeswarper wrote:
There is also a law requiring areas to meet reforestation requirements.  That would also need to be changed.

I know that. That law makes it not possible for this sort of management to take place until some revision is the law is made.
Are the "Adaptive Management Areas" still a thing, or have they done away with the "AMA" thing? Those areas, if the "AMA" program is still in effect, would be potential areas where this idea might be implemented.

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treeswarper
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PostFri Nov 10, 2017 2:34 pm 
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Unless the Forest Plan has been amended, there are AMAs.

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