Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > 'Environmental Nightmare' After Thousands Of Atlantic Salmon Escape Fish Farm 08/24/17
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trestle
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PostSat Aug 26, 2017 9:10 am 
First you said this:
Gregory wrote:
There is no risk of  Atlantic salmon population establishing itself in our rivers.

Then you said this:
Gregory wrote:
These Atlantics love to swim up our rivers

Can you please explain the contradiction? As I've always understood the salmon life-cycle, they swim up rivers in order to spawn and then die. Their brood would then swim to the ocean and eventually return to complete their life-cycle. Are you saying the Atlantics will swim up the rivers but not spawn? Are they all sterile? I truly don't know.

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Ski
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PostSat Aug 26, 2017 9:11 am 
^ Thanks Gregory. up.gif

The ugly reality locally isn't generally considered "politically correct".

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Schroder
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PostSat Aug 26, 2017 9:48 am 
Gregory wrote:
Alaska has the great benefit of fishing all the west coast stocks.California, Oregon, Washington. and Canada's fish all go up north to feed and grow.

No.

The Alaska salmon fisheries are all terminal fisheries - near the river mouths - and tightly regulated.  The salmon migration occurs well out at sea.  The only interception is from foreign fleets fishing illegally on the high seas.

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Gregory
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PostSat Aug 26, 2017 3:50 pm 
Schroder wrote:
Gregory wrote:
Alaska has the great benefit of fishing all the west coast stocks.California, Oregon, Washington. and Canada's fish all go up north to feed and grow.

No.

The Alaska salmon fisheries are all terminal fisheries - near the river mouths - and tightly regulated.  The salmon migration occurs well out at sea.  The only interception is from foreign fleets fishing illegally on the high seas.

Management of Pacific salmon has long been a matter of common concern to the United States and Canada due to the biological nature of Pacific salmon. Pacific salmon migrate long distances, spending several years at sea. In the course of their migratory cycle, United States-spawned fish enter the fishery zones of Canada and Canadian fish enter United States waters, where they are vulnerable to the other country's fishing fleets. Over the years, research by both countries using tagged salmon revealed that Alaskan fishermen were catching salmon bound for British Columbia, Oregon, and Washington; Canadian fishermen were capturing coho, chinook and other species bound for rivers of Washington and Oregon; fishermen in northern British Columbia were intercepting salmon returning to Alaska, and United States fishermen were catching salmon as they traveled through the Strait of Juan de Fuca and San Juan Islands towards Canada's Fraser River.

Unless international agreement is reached on management policies and conservation concerns, one nation may harvest too many of the other country's stocks and cause the home country's management objectives to be unachievable. Uncontrolled interceptions may also jeopardize the administrative and financial support needed for salmon enhancement programs: the home country may be reluctant to invest in hatcheries or habitat protection and restoration if too many fish produced are caught by fisheries of another nation. Intercepting fisheries encourage over-harvest and discourage investment in conservation and enhancement.

In 1985, after many years of negotiation, the Pacific Salmon Treaty was signed, setting long-term goals for the benefit of the salmon and the two countries. The Pacific Salmon Commission (http://www.psc.org/) is the body formed by the governments of Canada and the United States to implement the Pacific Salmon Treaty. The Pacific Salmon Commission is a sixteen-person body with four Commissioners and four alternates each from the United States and Canada, representing the interests of commercial and recreational fisheries as well as federal, state and tribal governments.

Pasted from here  http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/salmon/constraints.html

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Gregory
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PostSat Aug 26, 2017 3:55 pm 
Trestle,

http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/00922/wdfw00922.pdf

There still is no evidence of the Atlantics forming a reproducing sustainable population.I wish I had more time to go deeper.

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Schroder
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PostSat Aug 26, 2017 9:19 pm 
Gregory wrote:
In 1985, after many years of negotiation, the Pacific Salmon Treaty was signed, setting long-term goals for the benefit of the salmon and the two countries. The Pacific Salmon Commission (http://www.psc.org/) is the body formed by the governments of Canada and the United States to implement the Pacific Salmon Treaty. The Pacific Salmon Commission is a sixteen-person body with four Commissioners and four alternates each from the United States and Canada, representing the interests of commercial and recreational fisheries as well as federal, state and tribal governments.

This is ancient history.

I've commercially fished my entire life in Bristol Bay, Southeast Alaska and Puget Sound.  The interception referred to here is a concentrated effort in small areas, such as around Dixon Entrance on the B.C.-Alaska border and through the San Juans and next to Point Roberts on the Washington-B.C. border. Most of our fishing effort through the Straits of Juan De Fuca and Rosario Strait was targeting Fraser River (Canadian) sockeye.  These days the commercial fishing in Washington along the border is almost nonexistent.  I sold my permit back to the state many years ago in a buyout of the fleet.

The Alaska border fishery is tightly controlled by the commission on salmon bound for the Skeena River in B.C..  They're not getting Washington bound fish in the inside waters of Southeast Alaska.

There was also a sizable commercial troll fishery in Alaska, Washington and B.C. back in the 80's in outside waters that did intercept fish as they came down the coast, but that fleet is almost nonexistent today, and as pointed out, regulated by the commission.

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trestle
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PostSun Aug 27, 2017 6:13 am 
Gregory wrote:
There still is no evidence of the Atlantics forming a reproducing sustainable population.

That report was from 1999 and does refer to some Atlantics spawning in our rivers. At that point there was no evidence of return, but it says nothing about the interim. Your post implies there is nothing to fear (re: Atlantics in our rivers) except over-fishing of native stocks in an effort to catch the Atlantics. Are you saying that out of a few hundred thousand fish none of them will thrive and start a new, invasive life-cycle? Call me skeptical.

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Gregory
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PostSun Aug 27, 2017 6:46 am 
Schroder
I always wished that the sporties, commercial, and tribes would/could work together to protect our fisheries but alas.I worked toward this goal for years but lost.The sport guys are too busy fighting over bait and flies.I worked the Bering and gulf for 11 years.Thanks for the perspective on the treaty.I will throw this into the mix.Where am I wrong in thinking southeast harvested some of our fish?How many did the charter and sport, industry take before the Canadians take their slice?.I have always said it is a death of a thousand cuts and cut 1000 maybe the Chinese drift nets.

https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/Static/home/pdfs/basis_for_chinook_nonretention.pdf

Kind of ironic that this discussion started because of AK sustainable fisheries when the chinook there have been collapsing for years.

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DIYSteve
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PostSun Aug 27, 2017 8:28 am 
MtnGoat wrote:
So much time and energy and resources wasted on the notion that animals or plants are 'unnatural'  because of how they arrived. Everything which happens is fundamentally natural and the dichotomy is only an artificial one.

So, the release of House Sparrows and European Starlings in Central Park because they were mentioned in Shakespeare's works, and the catastrophic consequences thereof, were acts of nature? dizzy.gif You're drawing the line in an absurd place. Well, actually, you're not drawing any line. Applying your standard, there is no such thing as an invasive species.

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Gregory
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PostSun Aug 27, 2017 8:49 am 
Are the oysters in the hood canal invasive species?

Olympia, Native - Ostrea lurida - only west coast native
oyster.
• Eastern, Virginica - Crassostrea virginica. Native east coast N.
America, first oysters imported to the area. Reared in Willapa
Bay, Poulsbo, Sequim Bay; later, Olympia and Totten Inlet,
Puget Sound
• Pacific - Crassostrea gigas – formally imported from
Hiroshima Bay, Japan 1903 to Poulsbo Bay under Rennie
Wilbur Doane.
• Kumamoto. Crassostrea sikamea– small oyster imported from
Ariake Bay, southern Japan 1928: first recognized. Imports of
“summer Oyster” begin by 1930.
• European Flat or Belon - Ostrea edulis. Extensive culture in
Willapa, South Puget and North Sound prior to 1930 through
1990 and early 2000’s

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MtnGoat
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PostSun Aug 27, 2017 11:28 am 
DIYSteve wrote:
MtnGoat wrote:
So much time and energy and resources wasted on the notion that animals or plants are 'unnatural'  because of how they arrived. Everything which happens is fundamentally natural and the dichotomy is only an artificial one.

So, the release of House Sparrows and European Starlings in Central Park because they were mentioned in Shakespeare's works, and the catastrophic consequences thereof, were acts of nature? dizzy.gif You're drawing the line in an absurd place. Well, actually, you're not drawing any line. Applying your standard, there is no such thing as an invasive species.

That is correct. Humans are natural, hence their actions are natural.

Drawing the line at a subjective, arbitrary location with humans outside natural, is the absurd.

I don't view mindless nature as some version of perfection absent humans. Or think it 'should' be any one way.

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Ski
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PostSun Aug 27, 2017 11:52 am 
Well... you're entitled to your own opinion, but you're out there all on your lonesome fartin' in the breeze - there isn't a wildlife biologist or a botanist who's in agreement with you.

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AlpineRose
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PostSun Aug 27, 2017 12:56 pm 
For the benefit of those who do not receive PCC emails, additional background as well as action you can take:

Quote:
Please call the Governor if you care about wild salmon and healthy marine ecosystems.

The only good outcome of the massive escape of Atlantic salmon from net pens near the San Juan Islands is that people and politicians finally may be awakened to why marine feedlots must be banned from public waters.

Washington is the only U.S. state on the West coast that allows Atlantic salmon farming in net pens — despite the impacts of non-native fish escaping and the pathogens, parasites and pollution flushing from mesh-sided operations. Large-scale escapes have occurred before: more than 613,000 Atlantic salmon escaped into state waters in the 1990s.

Atlantic salmon are listed as invasive by Washington's Invasive Species Council. Oregon lists Atlantic salmon as one of the "100 Most Dangerous Invaders to Keep Out of Oregon." Alaska and California have banned fish farms in coastal waters to protect wild species, coastal economies, and communities.

Net pens are incapable of confining fish but the industry has not been required to relocate to closed containment operations. Instead, some state agencies and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Association (NOAA) are pressing for expansion. NOAA and the Canadian corporation that owns the salmon farming industry in Washington, Cooke Aquaculture, are targeting the Strait of Juan de Fuca for new operations.

We need your help to say "No." Washington spends millions of dollars each year to save wild salmon. We should not allow foreign businesses to cheapen our investment.

Call Governor Inslee at 360-902-4111 and ask the State to:
•Join Lummi Nation in declaring a State of Emergency.
•Deny permits for Cooke Aquaculture to expand operations and require it to transition to closed containment facilities.
•Coordinate recovery efforts to remove all escaped non-native Atlantic salmon from state waters.
•Require comprehensive risk assessments of marine fish farms by the Department of Ecology.
And please sign the petition at www.oursound-oursalmon.org!

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RumiDude
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PostSun Aug 27, 2017 2:08 pm 
MtnGoat wrote:
That is correct. Humans are natural, hence their actions are natural.

So murder is natural. As is mass murder like the Gulag camps, the ovens of Auschwitz, and the Killing Fields of Cambodia, these are all natural.

MtnGoat wrote:
I don't view mindless nature as some version of perfection absent humans. Or think it 'should' be any one way.

Well humans have collectively decided certain things. All natural of course. Anyway, in our corner of the world we humans have decided certain things "should" be a certain way in what we "naturally" decided to refer to as "nature" so I don't know exactly why you are kicking against "nature".

Rumi

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joker
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PostSun Aug 27, 2017 2:15 pm 
Yes, part of our nature, at least at times, is to reason  about the  impacts we have on our environment,  and to  ponder whether they're on net good or not. Sure, that involves value judgments.  Which  are quite natural for humans to  make!!

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