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Chief Joseph
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Chief Joseph
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PostSat Sep 09, 2017 5:59 pm 
^^^ I agree, given global warming ( nerd.gif ), recent droughts, and that many cities have already banned fireworks, there should either be a complete ban or at least tougher laws and more stringent enforcement of existing laws. Common sense is not common enough....nor is caring or taking responsibility for ones actions.

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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Ski
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PostSat Sep 09, 2017 6:17 pm 
Quote:
We should tax fireworks like we tax cigarettes so we can recover some of their costs to society.
Oh.. yeah... you mean like the tax that's collected on cigarettes sold on Indian reservations? lol.gif Every year they make a lot of noise about fireworks being illegal here. A few years ago they actually had the Indian fireworks stands out on River Road under surveillance and were pulling over and citing vehicles leaving the fireworks stands loaded up with goodies for the fourth of July. It's still the same deal every year here on the fourth: fireworks going off all over the neighborhood until 3:00 or 4:00 am. Not little stuff, either - big rockets that light up the whole sky and shake the windows. Good luck with getting the fireworks off the reservations. I'm sure the attempt would be almost as successful as the State of Washington trying to get the tribes out of the cigarette business. lol.gif Sorry, but I don't believe the solution is to go to the source. The solution is to nail that little bastard's ass right to the wall with some serious incarceration, and impose an outrageous fine on his parents so that they have to sell their house, along with all the rest of those that were involved in the incident, whose names are no doubt being held by the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office. Public demands consequences for 15-year-old Eagle Creek fire suspect

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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treeswarper
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PostSat Sep 09, 2017 6:34 pm 
up.gif up.gif up.gif

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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treeswarper
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PostSat Sep 09, 2017 6:39 pm 
On fireworks: I lived for a few years on the Oregon Coast. Every year there would be a stern warning from the various law enforcement agencies that illegal fireworks would not be tolerated. Every year on the Fourth, the beach would be full of illegal fireworks going off. Yup. that law really worked. Not to mention that for some reason, in that part of Oregon, fireworks seemed to be set off at any time of the year.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Ski
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PostSat Sep 09, 2017 6:53 pm 
The City of Tacoma, when they first imposed the all-out fireworks ban several years ago, set a fine of $257.00 when the City Council passed the ordinance. The problem was the Tacoma Police Department officers who answered the 911 dispatches went out to find some guy shooting off fireworks in the street with his kids, and failed to write up citations because the fine was so high. What's the point of enacting laws and ordinances banning fireworks if local law enforcement doesn't enforce them? On the Oregon coast, I would imagine it's probably the same as it is out at Ocean Shores, Grayland, Westport, Tokeland, Pacific Beach, Copalis, Taholah, Moclips, or Kalaloch: there simply aren't enough boots on the ground to deal with the violators. I recall going up to the Queets really early in the season about 15 years ago- camped just opposite the mouth of Coal Creek on the fourth of July. That's roughly 20 miles inland from the coast as the crow flies. I listened to fireworks going off all night long that night. Enforcement? SRSLY? lol.gif

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Chico
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PostSat Sep 09, 2017 6:59 pm 
Idaho bills parent of juvinile for starting fire. kgw.com

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Malachai Constant
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PostSat Sep 09, 2017 8:41 pm 
It sounded like the firework in question was a smoke bomb as of last 4th smoke bombs were legal in Oregon. Other reports say a firecracker, those are illegal in both WA and OR. They are available on reservations, however. IMO a smoke bomb or a sparkler are far more effective incendiary devices than firecrackers. All fireworks are illegal in National and State forests during this summer. Parents can be held liable for children's civil infractions, they are not liable for criminal actions, so beware of arson charges. Arson is unlikely as it requires criminal intent. That means he would have to intended to start a fire when he threw the device. Negligence or even recklessness is not enough.

"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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moonspots
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PostSun Sep 10, 2017 7:23 am 
Ski wrote:
Sorry, but I don't believe the solution is to go to the source. The solution is to nail that little bastard's ass right to the wall with some serious incarceration, and impose an outrageous fine on his parents so that they have to sell their house, along with all the rest of those that were involved in the incident, whose names are no doubt being held by the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office.
I agree, Ski, and I've already written to the Governor's office to voice my opinion. I also particularly like Treewarper's idea of putting them on an "inmate firecrew", if possible.

"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
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gb
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gb
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PostSun Sep 10, 2017 7:43 am 
In an ideal world, fireworks should be banned from transport on Interstate Highways with a very specific waiver for fireworks for public displays. States could also implement the same ban.

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treeswarper
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treeswarper
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PostSun Sep 10, 2017 8:25 am 
gb wrote:
In an ideal world, fireworks should be banned from transport on Interstate Highways with a very specific waiver for fireworks for public displays. States could also implement the same ban.
How would it be enforced? We have so many "laws" that are not enforced. Higher taxes to hire more cops? Like that would be popular... shakehead.gif It's peer pressure that works. In the neighborhood in Oregon that I lived in, I don't think many people worked or had to get up early to work. It was noisy with fireworks all night long and not just during the fourth. Where I now live, most folks have jobs that require them to get up early. The fireworks start before the fourth, and usually stop around 10PM except on the fourth when they go on later. Most people are close friends or relatives with somebody who worked or works in the forest or local mill. We know about fire restrictions and danger. Peer pressure is applied here sometimes in a way that is illegal, but the cops are a long ways off a lot of the time.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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AlpineRose
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PostSun Sep 10, 2017 1:08 pm 
treeswarper wrote:
It's peer pressure that works.
Exactly. Why did not the alleged 19 year old in the group stop the 15 year old from setting off the firework? Or better yet, keep the group from bringing any along in the first place? Or, god forbid, why did not the parents step in? imo, they are just as responsible as the kids for not imposing restrictions on carrying and using said fireworks. You think this was the first time these idiots had done this sort of thing? It takes a village.

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grannyhiker
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PostFri Sep 15, 2017 2:26 pm 
Leaving out the opinions about the perps (mostly unanimous), let's focus on the current status of the Gorge. For those who are mourning the place as completely toasted, here's an encouraging account: from the president of Trail Keepers of Oregon Finally, my friends in Corbett can go home, and the west end of the Gorge is pretty well stabilized. Of course things are still burning at the east end, and there is still active fire in the Bell Creek area. That forecast storm can't get here too soon!

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view.--E.Abbey
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zephyr
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PostFri Sep 15, 2017 5:35 pm 
Grannyhiker wrote:
For those who are mourning the place as completely toasted, here's an encouraging account: from the president of Trail Keepers of Oregon
That's an excellent overview of the Gorge and how the Eagle Creek Fire has impacted various locations and trails. Great photos with captions too. As he said it was a "first look" and when things calm down and conditions improve he and others will be able to assess the damage better. But initially things look better than I had thought. Thanks, Grannyhiker. ~z

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pcg
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PostFri Sep 15, 2017 8:06 pm 
Re. the referenced article above... The point of preservation efforts in the Gorge was, I thought, to stop messing with it and leave it alone. If the logjam is cleared to improve access, why not put a handrail and ladder at Indian Point to improve access? The logjam is part of Oneonta Gorge now. Leave it alone. It will be gone soon enough. Before that happens a whole lot of other debris will be coming down into Oneonta Gorge this winter which is likely to again change its character. That's what nature does. It's always changing. Leave it alone.

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Ski
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PostFri Sep 15, 2017 8:37 pm 
(* comment moved to the new thread cited just below by zephyr *)

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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