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SingleShot
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PostWed Sep 20, 2017 5:45 pm 
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What can be done about it? The problem started over a century ago when some lakes were first planted with fish that found spawning habitat. Since then a couple of hundred lakes have become ecological nightmares with too many fish that eat every invertebrate, and amphibian, they can. Anglers shun these lakes as the fish tend to have big heads and skinny bodies with little flesh.

I know of two USFS lakes that were poisoned and both are back to stunted populations.

Apex predators: Brown Trout, Tiger Trout, and Tiger Muskies are efficient predators but all have downstream ESA concerns. The Brown Trout introduced into Rock Lake provided some very exciting fishing for many years.

Competitor trout species. Trout have a pecking order and some species are more aggressive than others. I started backpacking fish into alpine lakes in 1968 and saw a couple of lakes turn around by simply changing species.

This group has a lot of knowledge about fish, and lakes, so what would be the best way to rid these lakes of stunted fish?

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Ski
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PostWed Sep 20, 2017 6:08 pm 
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errr... have WDFW declare open season on 'em with no bait or gear restrictions (other than explosives), no dusk-to-dawn curfew, no minimum size, no bag limit, and let people hammer them until there's not a fish left.

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Riverside Laker
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PostWed Sep 20, 2017 6:44 pm 
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I'm concerned about melted chocolate bars on summits. Back in the day, people planted M&Ms on summits, but now they use Theos, Ghiradellis, and the occasional truffle from Costco. But those things can't take the global warming like M&Ms, a chocolate candy made for troops in WWI. You need a good industrial chocolate source, not them durn yuppy bars.
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Tom
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PostWed Sep 20, 2017 6:58 pm 
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Ski, I believe that doesn't work.

As far as what can be done, I would venture to guess those managing the fishery would be the experts, more so than anyone here that isn't already involved in that process.
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Jaberwock
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PostWed Sep 20, 2017 8:07 pm 
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Rotenone is pretty effective
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Ski
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PostWed Sep 20, 2017 8:19 pm 
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Tom wrote:
Ski, I believe that doesn't work.

well... that's pretty much exactly what they did about the Atlantic Salmon that escaped from the fish farm last month, and the feral hogs that were up on the peninsula about a decade ago..... why wouldn't it work?

it sure took care of the hogs quick - two seasons and they were all bacon.

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Tom
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PostWed Sep 20, 2017 8:48 pm 
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http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=32449#32449

Brian Curtis wrote:
A lake full of reproducing 10" fish can handle a lot of fishing pressure because the lake is at maximum capacity, and no matter how many you pull out the following year's progeny will fill the holes left by the fish that were caught. So basically no matter what you do the lake will always be full of 10" fish and a bit of publicity won't change that. It is very difficult to fish a lake full of stunted fish down.
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Ski
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PostWed Sep 20, 2017 9:31 pm 
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okay thanks. I didn't know that!

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Chico
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PostWed Sep 20, 2017 9:31 pm 
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Ski wrote:
have WDFW declare open season on 'em with no bait or gear restrictions (other than explosives)

What's wrong with explosives? Causes a lot of temporary noise but no lasting ecological issues. Effective. Much better than poisoning the water.

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SingleShot
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PostWed Sep 20, 2017 9:34 pm 
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Rotenone is effective but at $200,000 a lake not realistic on a large scale. The two alpine lakes that had this treatment are now stunted lakes. One lake missed killing all the fish and the survivors went back to spawning. However, I think it was 1988 that it produced the state record brookie because a few of the fish had a lot to eat.

The other lake was successful and the first replanted fish did quite well. The second replant was done with fish that were known spawners and it has since stunted out.

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Ski
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PostWed Sep 20, 2017 9:46 pm 
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Chico wrote:
What's wrong with explosives?

Nothing, in the hands of those who know what they're doing.

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treeswarper
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PostThu Sep 21, 2017 6:11 am 
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Riverside Laker wrote:
I'm concerned about melted chocolate bars on summits. Back in the day, people planted M&Ms on summits, but now they use Theos, Ghiradellis, and the occasional truffle from Costco. But those things can't take the global warming like M&Ms, a chocolate candy made for troops in WWI. You need a good industrial chocolate source, not them durn yuppy bars.

We had to change to chocolate that would decompose quicker when left on summits.  Too many millennials were building unsightly cairns out of M&Ms.  The peanut M&Ms in the cairns were causing allergic reactions and the budget of the S&R groups took a beating.

A campaign to make M&Ms in less conspicuous colors so they would fit in with the 132nd LNT item failed.  Chocolate is brown so plain chocolate is acceptable.  I expect that will soon be banned because some tricksters are leaving toilet paper on top of their melted chocolate bars!

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grey heckle
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PostThu Sep 21, 2017 12:49 pm 
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As Brian C., has mentioned, fishing them out will not work.

AS someone else has said: I too, don't like poisons in high lakes for the potential for high lake water to contaminate wells and other supplies that rely on aquifers.
Maybe predatory fish, (or animals /otters)
Predatory fish would utilize the stunted population for food that is similar in nature to the sea (many sizes of utilizable food); they might never eliminate the offending population, but they will make better use of the food that has been taken by the offending population. I have heard from survey info that one stunt-filled lake in Lewis county produced 3-4 lb brown trout (illegal plant I understand); far better, IMO, fishing prospect than 5-7 " Eastern Brook trout - but the prejudice against Brown Trout, another import from Europe like Carp will probably take them off the list; even though Brown Trout have been in the Yakima R. since the 20's, so it may be possible to use them in that drainage system? There is also a report that the Atlantic Salmon stocked in a Skykomish R. system high lake, devoured the entire (?) Westslope population and grew to the fantastic (for fishermen) size of 12-14 pounds. There may be other predator trout (I would prefer them, over some warm water fish like perch, bass, walleyes, pike, etc; maybe some Pacific salmon (or more Atlantic salmon (?)(land-locked variety only), Predatory cutthroat, predatory Rainbows (Col. Redband); bull trout, squawfish (native fish), any other free-roaming predator.
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hbb
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PostThu Sep 21, 2017 12:50 pm 
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Ski wrote:
Tom wrote:
Ski, I believe that doesn't work.

well... that's pretty much exactly what they did about the Atlantic Salmon that escaped from the fish farm last month, and the feral hogs that were up on the peninsula about a decade ago..... why wouldn't it work?

it sure took care of the hogs quick - two seasons and they were all bacon.

Ski, take a look at the ONP regulations for brook trout in alpine lakes. It has been open season for quite some time, but that hasn't really made much of a dent as far as I've seen.
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MtnGoat
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PostThu Sep 21, 2017 4:49 pm 
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I prefer a lot of fish, to going all day to catch one... or none.

Even more unpopular, I love Brookies. I love the colors, I love the numbers, and I really love the eating...tasty meat with a flavor like thyme or something.

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