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Grannyhiker
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PostWed Oct 18, 2017 6:21 am 
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A thought-provoking article!
Our pine groves, canyons, parks and peaks are an incredible national asset. Let’s fund them properly, and make them truly accessible to everyone

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May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view.--E.Abbey
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treeswarper
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PostWed Oct 18, 2017 7:23 am 
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I find myself wondering if many people would want to do the menial work when somebody calls for hiring people to rehab public lands.   It isn't a walk in the park on a sunny day.  Hard, physical work is required.  Who would do that when they can find an indoor job?   People are not accustomed to doing physical work for not so great pay anymore.   

I did find sitting in front of a computer all day harder on the body that being out and stumbling around in the woods.

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What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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DIYSteve
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PostWed Oct 18, 2017 1:45 pm 
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Ski wrote:
Both Democrat and Republican administrations have repeatedly cut funding for both NPS and USFS over the course of the last several decades.

NPS and USFS budgets are set by the legislative branch, not the executive branch.

ETA: Actually, contrary to your "all politicians are the same" palaver, support of NPS is indeed a partisan issue. With few exceptions, Dems generally support NPS funding and operations, and GOP generally oppose them. See National Parks Action Fund: Nearly Half of Congress Has Anti-National Parks Voting Record and NPAF Congressional Voting Scorecard, and note that nearly all of the "they're all the same" Dem members of Congress you named get A grades, while the "they're all the same" GOP members get F grades. Roughly (actually, a bit more than) half of Congress have supported increased funding and support of NPS, but they have been stymied by a GOP-controlled Congress that has been strangled by the Tea Party Wing.
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DIYSteve
seeking hygge



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seeking hygge
PostWed Oct 18, 2017 2:33 pm 
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USFS funding scorecard would look very similar to the NPS scorecard.

As a general trend, reducing funding of USFS and NPS correlates with GOP-controlled Congress. The most recent increase (adjusted for inflation) in both NPS and USFS funding occurred the last time both houses of Congress were controlled by Dems. NPS/USFS defunding correlates with GOP-controlled House 18 of the past 22 years, i.e., 9 of the past 11 Congresses. Both NPS and USFS funding were increased during the 2 Dem-controlled Congresses in those 22 years.
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Malachai Constant
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PostWed Oct 18, 2017 2:45 pm 
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ditto.gif False Equivalentcy
They are not all the same just look at the current heads of EPA, Interior, etc.

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"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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RandyHiker
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PostWed Oct 18, 2017 5:20 pm 
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The CCC did a lot -- but the economic and social conditions that made it possible were pretty horrific.   A lot of people were starving in those days and the prospect of three meals a day, a decent set of clothes, a place sleep and  $30 a month ($517 in today's dollars)  was a better prospect than starving, wearing rags and living in a Hooverville. 

Unemployment in 1932 was almost 24%  -- a far cry from today's 5%
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DIYSteve
seeking hygge



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seeking hygge
PostWed Oct 18, 2017 5:27 pm 
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Ski wrote:
this has been going on since Tricky Dicky was in office

Can you provide support for that claim? I think you are in error.

Ski wrote:
(and for the record: if you think I'm a fan of the GOP, you're mistaken. I hate them all.)

If you hate and oppose those getting F's and those getting A's on NPAF's scorecard you are greatly enabling those getting F's. Lumping all politicians as evil is a key element the brand of populism that put the Scott Pruitt and Ryan Zinke in cabinet positions.

Re your claim that all members of Congress are complicit in preserving the status quo: You are incorrect in many ways. For starters, many GOP members of Congress want to radically change the status quo re USFS/NPS by putting public land into private hands, opening up public lands to private profiteers and allowing increased resource extraction from public lands. Sometimes a change of the status quo is a bad thing.
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treeswarper
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Joined: 25 Dec 2006
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PostWed Oct 18, 2017 7:25 pm 
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"Reinventing" Government

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DigitalJanitor
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PostFri Oct 20, 2017 9:02 am 
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treeswarper wrote:
I find myself wondering if many people would want to do the menial work when somebody calls for hiring people to rehab public lands.

I'd sure rather do this work than sit in another **** meeting, which was after the previous meeting, and schedules the next meeting.... after attempting to help w/ a few of these sorts of things locally I decided it's better for DigitalJanitor to NOT go to meetings and just stick to getting trail maintenance done. I get short tempered when I don't see actual progress on the ground and tend to speak my mind.

Clearly my career as a politician is doomed, lol.

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~Mom jeans on wheels
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treeswarper
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PostFri Oct 20, 2017 10:57 am 
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DigitalJanitor wrote:
treeswarper wrote:
I find myself wondering if many people would want to do the menial work when somebody calls for hiring people to rehab public lands.

I'd sure rather do this work than sit in another **** meeting, which was after the previous meeting, and schedules the next meeting.... after attempting to help w/ a few of these sorts of things locally I decided it's better for DigitalJanitor to NOT go to meetings and just stick to getting trail maintenance done. I get short tempered when I don't see actual progress on the ground and tend to speak my mind.

Clearly my career as a politician is doomed, lol.

I totally understand.    I still don't think there are enough people who would want to do trail maintenance day after day--and it isn't like volunteer work.  You don't  have an hour or better safety meeting every morning--there are expected  goals to meet.

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RodF
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PostFri Oct 20, 2017 3:30 pm 
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treeswarper wrote:
I still don't think there are enough people who would want to do trail maintenance day after day--and it isn't like volunteer work.

For each seasonal trail maintenance worker opening (NPS/BLM/USFS, starting pay ~$15.75/hr) there are dozens of applicants (even though the agencies list as many prior experience and work skills requirements as possible to keep the number of applications down so they don't have to wade through a hundred or more applications from people who might not know what the job really entails).

"Enough applicants" is not a limitation.  Time is the limitation: getting Congress to approve a budget early enough to get jobs advertised, applicants interviewed, hired and background checks done before the work season starts is the problem.

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"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated.  It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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