[rbuzby]

[Matt Lemke]

[RumiDude]

[Malachai Constant]

It is the price of fame. People are still debating the character of Abe Lincoln, Robert E. Lee, JFK, RFK, Ty Cobb, Michael Jackson and just about anyone famous. it doesn't stop when their dead in fact it intensifies. So it goes.

[Lutzman]

[neek]

Nothing here is going to damage Fred's legacy, people should stop being so sensitive and let others speak about things that are important to them. I didn't know Fred but his work was an inspiration to me. Will make it through Range of Glaciers one of these days...

[Randito]

[Layback]

Fred signed my books and was nice to me. That is all I know first hand. #FredBeckeyMattered

[Tom]

Just a reminder that personal attacks on other members are off limits. Keep it civil. Thank you.

[Matt]

This thread saddens me. I'm not saddened because Fred Beckey has died. He lived his life to the fullest, and he spent all of it doing what he loved best. I admire his climbing accomplishments, and I am grateful for all the information he published. Both his climbing ability and his knowledge were outstanding. And I'm not saddened because people have described the mix of traits that formed his personality. I only met him briefly a few times, but I've enjoyed the many stories published here and elsewhere by people who traveled and climbed with him. Those stories have included his climbing, but also his notorious frugality, his sometimes abrasive conduct in groups, and his incessant pursuit of women. It's clear that his personality was as outsized as his accomplishments, and I'm glad that the stories show that. What value is a memorial thread if it only shows an edited, sanitized version of someone, instead of the real person? And I'm not saddened that Radka posted a comment that named the harmful side of Beckey's behavior toward women. The memorial process ultimately isn't about the person who died. He's already gone. It's about his impact on the community that remembers him. And that community includes people who were hurt by his behavior. They deserve to be able to name that impact. I am saddened and offended by some of the responses to Radka's comment. Radka posted a single line, very concisely mentioning both Beckey's accomplishments and his sexism.

[gb]

The problem is, that one woman's comments were not based on what she knew about Fred, but rather on what she had heard. To what extent her "observations" are true none of us really know. Fred had a "reputation" for being a womanizer, and there is nothing wrong with liking or pursuing the opposite sex. That "reputation" though doesn't speak at all about his abusing woman in any way. Perhaps most recently only Megan Bond knows how Fred treated women. For myself, surrounding my experiences with Fred, I saw none of this. I did hear him say a couple of times, I'd like to get her phone number, regarding some woman. What I saw mostly was an individual so very driven by his pursuit of new places and new routes. What I didn't see was Fred opening up or sharing about other things besides climbing. That doesn't mean he never did, it just means I never saw it, just as Radka never saw Fred's womanizing, let alone his "supposed" abuse of women.

[radka]

No. This is the problem:

[joker]

Well put, Matt and Radka. Matt - you did a good job of articulating what I was struggling to articulate yesterday, but opted not to because I could not find such a good string of words. Thank you for putting in the effort to share your thoughts so well. Radka, I'm saddened that some have responded as they have. And I'm sorry I didn't muster the right words to share my thoughts as Matt did. I know that some believe in a policy of "don't speak ill of the dead" (and to be clear you did also laud his accomplishments in your terse first comment) but some of the responses have gone clearly beyond that concern. FWIW it is possible that at least some missed your followup where you explained that you saw this in person - such is the way with long threads like this one; but I don't think that fully explains all the responses and in any case one could always start by asking if unsure rather than asserting that this was second-hand info... And as Malachai Constant explained, public figures tend to be considered by most to be fair game for full examinations, even after death.

[Lutzman]

[joker]

Why not ask for clarification then rather than go on the attack? FWIW I didn't read her as in any way suggesting rape. But there are a range of behaviors well short of that which we should not silently tolerate. Do I know whether she's telling the truth or not? Or if what she considered to be unacceptable would meet my own bar there? No (though generally speaking being asked to stop should something should just stop it...). But I'm certainly not going to attack her here based on that lack of knowledge for her having spoken up.