[Tom]

To be fair comments were twisted into something much more extreme to discount what was actually said. Did anyone say he was a rapist? No. Was he an abuser? Some behaviors could be considered a form of abuse, but not in the context typically used or associated with the word rapist. Yes, someone did use the word oppression, but again, you need to look at what was said in context. Was Fred sexist? I don't doubt it. Do we really need the gory details? No. Can we please move on?

[Tom_Sjolseth]

Fred Beckey was a great man who inspired countless individuals to explore and love the outdoors. His research on the history, geology and geography of the N Cascades is unparalleled. He left behind literally hundreds of friends and thousands more admirers that respected him. That's the moral of this story. It's sad that some ostensible social justice warrior waited until AFTER the man's death to seek out his memorial/obit thread and salt his name. Make no mistake, that action in and of itself is dishonorable. The people who have attacked me for pointing that out already don't like me. I do not care, I do not wish to associate with the type of person who would seek out an obit thread to salt someone's name after their death. I lose ZERO sleep over your personal attacks, and am more than happy to be the one to say what is needed to be said.

[Lutzman]

[mbravenboer]

Radka was simply pointing out it's complicated when remembering people. This is not particularly unusual. Many historical figures did questionable things, not only to women. When public figures die and their death is reported in the news, I've often seen both the accomplishments as well as the complications being discussed. I think that's great, and I find this beneficial as long as both are respected. I don't think Radka was disrespecting the accomplishments. The other way around it was a sad mess in this thread.

[Tom]

Tom, no doubt Fred was a great man and inspiration to many. Was it appropriate to bring up this particular issue in this particular thread? I can go either way on that. I don't think anyone is actively seeking out this or other memorial pages to salt Fred's name. It's not as if this is a NYT obit, Fred's facebook page or official / memorial website. I prefer to base my opinion on someone's character by more than just one point of reference. I would say Radka's posting history does not back up your characterization. Would be great if all could dispense with continued personal attacks and focus instead on building a positive legacy of our own.

[pimaCanyon]

[DadFly]

I am a white male pushing 60, knew Fred through a handful of NW friends and have found nothing in this thread that "I think" he would disagree with. Who the hell am I to say what Fred would agree or disagree with? Doesn't matter in a flame war but it matters to me here and now. I am a social anthropologist who loves this kind of thread. Fred had all the qualities my father had. What a pair they would have made had one of them swapped mountain ranges. Sexist? Absolutely! Belligerent? Well duh. Freaking incredible in other ways? That is why we persist in this topic. Each one of us. No exclusions. No one on the thread is here to argue against that. So what is my point? We live in the 21st century. I knew an old Blackfeet woman who came to the US on a travois and watched her great great grandchildren play on cell phones. The degree to which we have changed is barely comprehensible if at all. We are in the midst of an even bigger change which will have impacts we cannot predict. We have to reach down inside ourselves, find the good we have to offer and the bad we have to change and make our time matter according to the good. We also have to communicate with each other. We cannot get away from each other so we might as well try to work things out. This part will hurt. Because the most effective way to dishonor yourself and or another human is to lie. An old Blackfeet guy told me once, "There were originally four Pipes in the world. The Red Pipe is help by the Hopi. The Yellow Pipe is held in Tibet, The Black Pipe is held in Kenya. And the White Pipe was lost long ago." Our western European traditions are based on growth and "moving ahead". The problem with this is that we do not as a society, systematically apply Wisdom to our decisions. In fact, more often that not, we make the decisions passively. If we can do something new we will. Consequences be damned. The Victorian age is an example. We are still trying to climb out of that hole imo. And that is what this argument aspect has focused on - Fred's expression of his generations' social norms being publicly analyzed seemingly at Fred's expense. Well first off, "I think" he would have chuckled a bit, freed some expletives and moved on. But our task is not that easy. We still have to live here in an increasingly crowded world. So for what it is worth, here are few things I consider when I am exposing my values publicly. Who am I? A white male raised in a middle class family in a US college town in the mountains. Pretty damn easy. Am I privileged? Absolutely. I hear the "locker room talk" from all generations even now though it seems to be waning. It applies to sexism, racism, class warfare, the handicapped, sexual orientation, you name it. Except me. Being a white middle class male it is extremely rare that I hear the locker room talk denigrating me. Am I racist? Yeah. Figured that one out the first time I watched John Wayne shooting indians while I was in a room full of Flathead indians. Will I ever not be racist, sexist or one of several other faults we could list here? Doubtful. But I try. I have to try to be better than who I was. If we cannot all do this then we are doomed to repeat our ancestors mistakes with modern weapons.

[contour5]

[RumiDude]

[Layback]

I have extreme problems with a former member of this forum who is now deceased; I questioned this person’s ethics and motives. I would have never even considered saying something bad about this person when they were memorialized in light of what this person’s friends were going through. Instead, the right thing to do was wish everyone who cared about this person my deepest sympathies. It also caused me to question, was there more to this person that I perceived if so many people loved this person? Just because your opinion is “politically correct” doesn’t make it politically correct. Agree completely with Tom Sjolseth.

[trestle]

[Bernardo]

[Ski]

^ spot on. these words actually do still exist in the English language: protocol etiquette discretion

[cascadetraverser]

I get as a husband with a daughter the need for better equality and a healthier dynamic between the sexes as compared to past generations. But I deeply respect elderly people who have lived amazing lives (and there are always faults to be pointed out) and respect the recently deceased for their memory and their grieving family members. It seems like healthy boundaries are being crossed by bringing negative criticism of the recently dead along with a social agenda into an obituary column. There is another time and place for that.

[RumiDude]

Something to remember is that Fred Beckey was a public figure; he was an author, he made public appearances, he traded on his accomplishments, etc. There is nothing wrong with that. But with that also comes the fact that public figures are open to public criticism unlike a private citizen. As Tom has noted this is not an obituary, Fred's facebook page or official / memorial website. Additionally, there is nothing written about Fred Beckey here which hasn't been written and/or discussed before in public. As Malachai Constant intimated: "All I was told as a young climber was never introduce your girlfriend to him." I would further add what I quoted earlier from MeganBond: