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williswall
seeking tailwind



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williswall
seeking tailwind
PostSun Nov 19, 2017 6:51 pm 
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My Panasonic LX100 died on my last outing, and I have been pondering a replacement. I liked the small form factor of the LX100 and the 4K video capabilities. However, I am ready to up the quality and concentrate on better photography. I've read all the reviews on the Fujifilm cameras, the Sonys (RX100 V etc), the Canons etc but something is always missing. Not considering size, here are my considerations:

Larger sensor, i.e. APS-C etc
Weather Sealed (including lens)..this may have been the undoing of my LX100
Minimal 4K video capability
Fixed lens OK, or minimal 3-4X zoom
Manual controls of course; this seems to be the sticking point of the sony cameras, poor interface
Quality lens, fitting for wider landscape shots and astrophotography

I have ruled out the Fuji X100F, which seems to be best suited for street photography. On the fence for the Sony RX100 V due to continued complaints about controls and finicky interface.

Considering the Canon G1X III, but video capabilities stop at 1080. Considering the upcoming Panasonic G9 and Lumix 8-18 f/2.8-4 lens. Since I already own a quality prime and telephoto for Panasonic M43 (older GH2), also considering the GH5.

When I get into interchangeable lens cameras the choices become dizzying. I will go with the larger form factors of these cameras and go back to carrying via front pack if needed.

Budget: I'd like to keep it under $3500. Any replies much appreciated.

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"I don't worry about bears, the cougars have scared them all off." (BrushBuffalo)

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puzzlr
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puzzlr
Mid Fork Rocks
PostSun Nov 19, 2017 10:51 pm 
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I'll be watching this thread carefully because my LX100 lens is starting to get balky, just like the telescoping lens on several previous Panasonic LX models. I also get sensor dust which is a pain, and they can't be cleaned. But every time I look for a new camera I go back to this series because of the fast lens and small size. Now I'm done with telescoping lenses. Maybe a mirrorless model will get me the fast lens (you don't mention that as a criteria), somewhat compact size, and still not break the bank.

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pcg
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PostMon Nov 20, 2017 8:41 am 
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williswall wrote:

Weather Sealed (including lens)..this may have been the undoing of my LX100
Minimal 4K video capability
Fixed lens OK, or minimal 3-4X zoom
Manual controls of course; this seems to be the sticking point of the sony cameras, poor interface
Quality lens, fitting for wider landscape shots and astrophotography
...
When I get into interchangeable lens cameras the choices become dizzying. I will go with the larger form factors of these cameras and go back to carrying via front pack if needed.

Budget: I'd like to keep it under $3500. Any replies much appreciated.

The Olympus O-MD E-M1 Mark II (interchangeable lenses) meets all of your criteria except the larger sensor. It's u4/3. However, the Olympus Pro series lenses have very sharp glass which, IMO, is more important than sensor size. Yes, u4/3 is noisier than ASP-C, but the sensor is 20 MP and if you aren't going to print larger than 24" x 36" I don't think you'll notice a difference, except perhaps for milky way shots, where full frame is king.

As you know, if you are hiking/climbing with gear, small sensor size is a huge benefit because the lenses are smaller. This camera body with an Olympus Pro series 12-100 (24-200 full frame equivalent) has an MSRP under $3,000, and makes for a very compact solution for an interchangeable lens system.
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gb
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PostMon Nov 20, 2017 10:04 am 
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I've had m4/3 for about 4 years and am very happy with it. I have the EM-1 original version and bought a second because I like it so much. I have the 12-40 F2.8, 35-100 F2.8, 60 macro F2.8, 75-300, and 8mmF1.8FE lenses. Regarding noise, I can only see it in astro/landscape with long exposures and higher ISO's and if I look extremely closely in skies with graduated blue. It is still possible to get very good astro/landscape shots and one can keep the ISO to 1600 or so with the F1.8 aperture and 2500 with the F2.8 aperture in wide angles at 20 seconds to 25-30 second exposures depending on the focal length. The noise in the blue sky is there but it took me about a year before I ever saw it. One's eyes in an image do not tend to be attracted to the blue sky portion of an image and you have to get within about 8" anyway to see it. Otherwise, for me, noise in a dark area of an image is not a big deal because that is not the part of an image I tend to look at. So, I would say I've never really seen it.

I shoot jpegs mostly but rarely will shoot RAW in an image with very high dynamic range. The jpeg quality is very high and RAW is not ordinarily worth the effort. Single AF on my camera bodies is also bang on.

Regarding camera bodies, do you need 4K in video? Olympus cameras are generally better than Panasonic at stills, Panasonic is better at video. The newest EM-1 is also supposed to be good at video. You may not need the very latest and greatest camera bodies which are specialized for video and for action photography such as birds in flight. The newer bodies are also heavier and bulkier. For me the newest bodies would be too large and the difference in the IQ of stills would be minimal at best excepting the aforementioned areas. So, take a look at the EM-1 I, the EM-5 II, and some of the GX models from Panasonic. See which cameras feel best in hand and definitely consider the EVF in your choices. Image stabilization in Olympus (for which I have experience) is very good and the only use for a tripod is nighttime and macro photography.

On lenses, I listed those that I have (I use the FE as a compact UWA that doubles for great expansive astro/landscape shots). For me the range of the 12-40 (double the focal length for FF equivalent) is what I shoot 90% of my landscape, to the extent that I only carry the 35-100 on some trips, usually where the topography is extremely rugged like parts of the North Cascades. Therefore, on most trips the considerably smaller 12-40 is all that I carry. The 35-100 stays home. The 12-100 is quite a bit larger but still not long enough for most wildlife photography. In the Canadian Rockies or Yellowstone or Glacier National Park where one would expect to see wildlife I carry the bulkier 75-300.

Olympus and Panasonic have the capacity for in camera focus stacking which is especially valuable in macro photography but which requires, practically, a tripod. In camera focus stacking is not compatible with the 12-100 from what I understand but works with the 12-40 and 60 macro.

I use MF for macro, for some birds, and use Manual mode for astro/landscape. MF is made easier with a good Focus Peaking option. I wouldn't personally buy a camera specifically for astro/landscape as that application tends to be repetitive unless one is shooting galaxies with a telescope. I have a total of about a half dozen to one dozen different astro/landscape compositions.

Glazer's should have a selection of m4/3 gear.
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boot up
Old Not Bold Hiker



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PostWed Nov 22, 2017 10:22 am 
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I am loving my new M4/3 Panny G85  which is weather and dust sealed.  They really improved Image Stabilization, starting with this model, especially when paired with the new lens. 

The 12-60(24-120 equiv) kit lens is highly worthwhile for only a $100 extra, as it is weather sealed and its IS works with the cameras IS.   Panasonic is awful on their camera names.  Do not confuse the G85 with the more compact but not weather sealed GX85, as many people do.

24-120 in micro 4/3 is a nice range for landscape photography, although this is not a pocket size setup.

My other favorite lens to use with it is the Oly 9-18 zoom (18-36 equiv).   Also surprisingly useful wide angle that can be used as a single carry lens with that high end being narrow enough to take "normal" shots too.  Amazing glass on the Oly for the price.

I figure the fact this camera is NEVER put on sale is a testament to its popularity, for a camera that has been out for quite some time.

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mike
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PostWed Nov 22, 2017 7:33 pm 
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Another satisfied 4:3 user. Doesn't give anything up to APS-C. Smaller and lighter. I have an EM5ii and the 14-150ii pretty much lives on it. Both lens and body are weather sealed. The 9-18 goes in a pocket. I have the EM5 too as a backup and several...OK, a lot more lenses. Just bought the tiny Sam 7.5mm but haven't tried it out yet. It's in the mail.
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joker
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PostFri Nov 24, 2017 10:25 am 
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You don't note what you want to be able to do with your photos.  Do you  want to print large, for instance, and if so,  how large?

For screen viewing and  smaller prints say up  to about 11x14, that Sony RX100 is  pretty darn  good in my experience, and I've  gotten  pretty used to  the  interface. Yes, switching ISO  is not as convenient as on my DLSR with the dedicated ISO  button and handy multi-function knob combo, but it's not  that bad either, at least  for  me. It's the price I pay for when I want a very light but fairly capable RAW-shooting camera with  a good range of controls.  The astrophotography isn't awesome for printing, at least on the  M2, and the difference between it and  my  full-frame DSLR is  even  quite apparent with on-screen  viewing for night sky shots. But I never begrudge the RX100 the size it takes up or the  weight it adds to  my pack.
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Kenji
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PostSat Nov 25, 2017 2:24 pm 
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Since you've mentioned Fuji, I can give you some info from my experience with X cameras for about 6 years, first X-pro1, then X-t1. I's not the smallest or highest res,  but has been a great "little" camera to take anywhere I go.

The latest Xs has gone to 24mp, which would be nice for cropping.  Xt2 now is 4k video capable, though I never done video w/ mine.  I typically set all manual, and they are very easy to operate that way. XT1 is weather sealed and mine gets wet/damp all the time while/after skiing w/o any problem.  Many newer lenses are weather-proof as well.

Fuji's lens options has expanded and not super expensive either (except a few pro-models).  I typically take 10-24 mm for hiking and add 18-135mm for skiing.  For overnight trips, add 12mmF2, maybe 35mmF1.4 for star shots.

Overall it meets my need very well, I'd go to a higher res model at some point for mainly post-cropping option.  I think they are very functional and usable, also many users rate their fun-value very high.
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williswall
seeking tailwind



Joined: 30 Sep 2007
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williswall
seeking tailwind
PostTue Jan 30, 2018 2:23 pm 
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Thanks for all who responded to this thread, I spent considerable time researching cameras, closely looking at my needs, exploring all the options posted here. I finally pulled the trigger on a setup, a Panasonic G9 (now becoming available, I have an order in but it may be a month or so before it ships) and a Leica 8-18 lens. Considerations to go larger size:
retirement in two years, if I'm gonna spend some dough now is the time
G9 weather sealed/dust proof/freeze proof body
Leica....same, with all internal zoom
excellent battery life and ability to charge in camera
excellent 4K choices
ability to use my two existing m4/3 lenses
dual card slots, capable of newer UHS II speed
Lens will take 67mm screw on filters
6.5 stops of stabilization between in camera and lens

I just ordered this last night, so it's been 3 months since I posted this thread, seemed like an agonizing process. Thanks again for your input.

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"I don't worry about bears, the cougars have scared them all off." (BrushBuffalo)

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PostTue Jan 30, 2018 5:24 pm 
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you will like that rig!

I am a couple generations back with the Panny G85, but still no regrets, especially considering my post-retirement budget.   Oddly, they have never had a sale price on the G85.   But the G9 has a few bells and whistles I would envy.   

That Leica lens will be awesome.   

Also note, the new panasonics have useable panorama mode!   Not sure why the high end cameras have taken so long to catch up to smart phones for having a useable panorama mode.

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friluftsliv
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williswall
seeking tailwind



Joined: 30 Sep 2007
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Location: Bellevue, WA
williswall
seeking tailwind
PostTue Jan 30, 2018 9:44 pm 
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boot up wrote:
Also note, the new panasonics have useable panorama mode!  Not sure why the high end cameras have taken so long to catch up to smart phones for having a useable panorama mode.

My LX100 had a good pano mode.....

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