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Ski
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Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 12831 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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 Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:54 am |
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| Token Civilian wrote: | | Are you seriously trying to say the toe pivot pin of the boot that is hooked by the little clip thing on the binding of my cross country ski is a machine comparable with a wheeled vehicle like a bike or horse drawn cart? |
^ no, it is not "comparable" to a wheeled vehicle, other that its being a "machine".
try a dictionary.
Steve, maybe you just need to go back and re-read the post.
I don't have time to help you two with reading comprehension skills.
Thanks. 
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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ale_capone
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Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 720 | TRs | Pics
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| RandyHiker wrote: | | The motorized wheelchair provision seems ripe for unintended consequences-- since the current bill doesn't limit motorized use to the disabled, nor distinguish between electric and gasoline powered wheelchairs. |
I'm gonna get me a handicap sticker and claim my snowmachine as a 'winter wheelchair'.. or couch.
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MtnGoat
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:27 pm |
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It's interesting to see the backlash to the systematic exclusion of users due to the over reaching use of WSA's. It's too bad there isn't a user focused form of protection which allows for biking, hiking and yes, even motorized use of existing roaded access while excluding some of the extraction that some folks hate so much. I know the study area definition nominally states 'roadless' areas, but many if not most of them actually have roads. The desire for purity in protection, instead of merely restricting some extraction, seems to be causing it's own backlash.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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MtnGoat
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:27 pm |
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| ale_capone wrote: | | I'm gonna get me a handicap sticker and claim my snowmachine as a 'winter wheelchair'.. or couch. |
Winter Wheelchair, I love it! I'm gonna use that one.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Alpendave
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Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 863 | TRs | Pics
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If I’m up front on a hike with my kids and you come flying down the trail, I’m pushing you off before you crash into my kid. Period.
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RodF
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Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 2593 | TRs | Pics
Location: Sequim WA |
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RodF
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:24 pm |
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| RandyHiker wrote: | | (It is already the case that outside wilderness boundaries some trails allow mountain bike usages and some do not) |
I'm glad to see this mentioned, at last.
Indeed, bikes are not allowed on most non-wilderness trails in Olympic. This bill would simply allow land managers and the public to consider, in future planning processes, whether bikes are compatible with existing uses on specific wilderness trails, as well. (I can only think of one wilderness trail in Olympic - Wolf Creek Trail, the former Hurricane Hill Road - where bikes are likely to be allowed.)
| RandyHiker wrote: | | So I would expect there to be a long series of lawsuits about which trails in WA may have bikes and which may not |
Based on... what? I'm not aware prohibiting bikes from most non-wilderness trails (nature trails, interpretive trails, etc) has a litigious history.
Isn't this a straw-man argument?
The advantage of this bill is that future wilderness areas could be larger and more contiguous, as they would not need to exclude mountain biking trails. The 2009 Mt. Hood Wilderness Additions, drawn to exclude a dozen existing bike trails, looks like a spider web. It would also broaden support for future wilderness bills and make them far less contentious, unlike the Boulder-White Clouds.
"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated. It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated. It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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Malachai Constant
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Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 16092 | TRs | Pics
Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
Nonsense, the real reason for opposing wilderness is from extractive industries mostly mining, oil, gas, and timber. The rest is merely Kabuki.
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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Randito
Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 9512 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:48 pm |
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| RodF wrote: | | Based on... what? I'm not aware prohibiting bikes from most non-wilderness trails (nature trails, interpretive trails, etc) has a litigious history.
Isn't this a straw-man argument? |
I don't think so -- for example some MTB advocates are keen to bike the John Muir trail and other wilderness portions of the PCT. Hiker and equestrian groups would be equally opposed to opening those trails to wheeled usage. Whichever way the land agency decides on opening or not opening these trail user groups will likely sue.
Seems like a lot of time and effort expended by many parties to most likely result in the status quo on these iconic trails.
There might be an opportunity with a bill crafted with less broad language. E.g. stipulate that wheelchair usage was only for people classified as disabled under the ADA, set noise limits on motorized wheelchairs, disallow tracked wheelchairs and limit the opening to bicycles to wilderness areas created after 2007.
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MyFootHurts
Huge Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2011
Posts: 912 | TRs | Pics
Location: Kekistan |
So what happens in 10 years when exoskeleton tech becomes widespread and affordable?
You'd able to hike 50 miles a day with one these.
Is it mechanized transport?
Does it have a real impact on wilderness? Or is the only impact the hurt feelings of other hikers because the dude with robot legs is "cheating"?
What if the technology is implanted instead of external? You might laugh, but this stuff my be real in few years.
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Randito
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Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 9512 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:37 pm |
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graywolf
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Joined: 03 Feb 2005
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Location: Sequim |
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graywolf
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:41 pm |
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| alpendave wrote: | | If I’m up front on a hike with my kids and you come flying down the trail, I’m pushing you off before you crash into my kid. Period. |
Same here, except in my case it's my wife or my adult daughters.
The only easy day was yesterday...
The only easy day was yesterday...
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Malachai Constant
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Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 16092 | TRs | Pics
Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
Two words Oscar Pistorius
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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Muir fan
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Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Posts: 89 | TRs | Pics
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Muir fan
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:52 pm |
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MtnGoat
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:38 am |
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We need to remember there are certain proper ways for recreation, and locking up millions upon millions of acres is how you preserve that one best way. (The folks who glare at me upon summiting Mt Defiance because I putted up the 4x4 route for the view, know that best way it seems.)
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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mb
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Joined: 11 Aug 2002
Posts: 507 | TRs | Pics
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mb
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Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:06 am |
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| Malachai Constant wrote: | | Nonsense, the real reason for opposing wilderness is from extractive industries mostly mining, oil, gas, and timber. The rest is merely Kabuki. |
This bill does not oppose wilderness; it removes an objection to wilderness.
Right now bike advocates must say "please turn this proposed wilderness into a spiderweb to retain these long used bike routes" or "please do not make this a wilderness, as it will cause a loss of long used bike routes".
| alpendave wrote: | | If I’m up front on a hike with my kids and you come flying down the trail, I’m pushing you off before you crash into my kid. Period. |
Sure, but what has this to do with wilderness? The same issue applies in a crosswalk in downtown Seattle or on a trail in the middle of Idaho used by 3 people a week.
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