Forum Index > Stewardship > How to get into ONP ~~~ Mission Nearly Impossible.
Previous :: Next Topic  
Author Message
RumiDude
Marmota olympus



Joined: 26 Jul 2009
Posts: 2369 | TRs
Location: Port Angeles
RumiDude
Marmota olympus
PostSun Dec 17, 2017 11:22 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Question: How can one currently enter ONP?
Answer: To actually drive into ONP, your options are currently very few.
Sol Duc road is gated and closed for the winter.
Staircase is closed due to washout and not scheduled to be repaired until 2018 spring at the earliest.
Olympic Hotsprings/Whiskey Bend closed due to Elwha River changing course. Planning/Repair is scheduled for 2020/2021, if ever.
Deer Park Road is closed for the winter. Opens generally mid-July.
Hurricane Ridge Road is on winter schedule which means Friday/Saturday/Sunday, weather permitting.
Upper Hoh Road is closed due to washout. I am not aware of any timetable for the repair.
Dosewallips is closed indefinitely, most likely forever, 6.5 miles from ONP.
Queets, Ozette, Mora, and Quinault Roads are still open.

What is that word we always say which is the most important thing we need for outdoor recreation ... oh yes, ACCESS.

I am aware we can hike into ONP through other access points, but ONP is slowly being killed off. And to make matters even more screwed up, they want to raise the entry fee from $25 to $75.

Rumi

--------------
Valhalla Outdoors
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Jaberwock
Member
Member


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 636 | TRs
Location: Bellingham
Jaberwock
Member
PostMon Dec 18, 2017 7:57 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Honestly... I'm OK with less access.  But then again I'm not disabled so maybe I'm just a dick.  Less access=less crowds  up.gif
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
RumiDude
Marmota olympus



Joined: 26 Jul 2009
Posts: 2369 | TRs
Location: Port Angeles
RumiDude
Marmota olympus
PostMon Dec 18, 2017 12:33 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
I would also note that in 2010 the Hurricane Ridge Road was washed out January 19th. The repairs were expedited and the road was reopened by April of the same year, IIRC.

The study, cost, and rerouting of the Olympic Hot Springs Road should have been figured into the removal of the dams on the Elwha. It should have been done back then and we would not be experiencing this fiasco now.

Rumi

--------------
Valhalla Outdoors
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon



Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 1749 | TRs
Location: North Dakota
moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon
PostMon Dec 18, 2017 12:42 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Jaberwock wrote:
Honestly... I'm OK with less access.  But then again I'm not disabled so maybe I'm just a dick.  Less access=less crowds  up.gif

Ya know, I agree. Not because of the able/disable issue, in that regard I think all should have equal vehicular access to the trailhead/visitor's center. But, to enlarge it so that more and more people can "visit" is wrong.  What annoys me the most is taking a nice quiet wilderness area and turning it into a WalMart like parking lot, so that "they" can get more and more people in there to buy trinkets, junk food and so on. Take a look at the mess they've turned Yellowstone Park (specifically the area around "Old FaithfuL") into, and even worse, Mt Rushmore. That is a severe cut into what was a nice area 40 years ago. Yosemite also comes to mind, although I've not visited that one, and based on what I've read, not likely to either.

--------------
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
RumiDude
Marmota olympus



Joined: 26 Jul 2009
Posts: 2369 | TRs
Location: Port Angeles
RumiDude
Marmota olympus
PostMon Dec 18, 2017 12:50 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
moonspots wrote:
But, to enlarge it so that more and more people can "visit" is wrong.

This doesn't apply to ONP at all. This is simply about maintaining historic access to ONP.

Rumi

--------------
Valhalla Outdoors
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Stefan
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 4351 | TRs

Stefan
Member
PostMon Dec 18, 2017 3:55 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
RumiDude wrote:
Olympic Hotsprings/Whiskey Bend closed due to Elwha River changing course. Planning/Repair is scheduled for 2020/2021

I wonder if this was ever planned because of taking out the dam.

--------------
Art is an adventure.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
reststep
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 4082 | TRs

reststep
Member
PostMon Dec 18, 2017 4:30 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
moonspots wrote:
look at the mess they've turned Yellowstone Park (specifically the area around "Old FaithfuL") into, and even worse, Mt Rushmore. That is a severe cut into what was a nice area 40 years ago. Yosemite also comes to mind, although I've not visited that one,

I suppose you could add in Paradise and Sunrise at Mount Rainier National Park and Hurricane Ridge at Olympic National Park.

I have a different view however.  I like to see the people enjoying visiting their parks. The parks belong to the people that visit by automobile just as much as it does to hikers in my opinion.  There are plenty of areas left to hike and backpack away from the crowds.

--------------
"The mountains are calling and I must go." - John Muir
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon



Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 1749 | TRs
Location: North Dakota
moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon
PostMon Dec 18, 2017 4:43 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
RumiDude wrote:
moonspots wrote:
But, to enlarge it so that more and more people can "visit" is wrong.

This doesn't apply to ONP at all. This is simply about maintaining historic access to ONP.

Rumi

Right, I know that. I may have inadvertently hi-jacked the thread a bit... so back to the topic at hand.

--------------
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Pyrites
Member
Member


Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Posts: 997 | TRs
Location: South Sound
Pyrites
Member
PostTue Dec 19, 2017 12:06 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
I wouldn’t put Mount Rushmore on the same list as Old Faithfull area. It was mined to be a tourist trap.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
RodF
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 2373 | TRs
Location: Sequim WA
RodF
Member
PostTue Dec 19, 2017 5:28 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Stefan wrote:
RumiDude wrote:
Olympic Hotsprings/Whiskey Bend closed due to Elwha River changing course. Planning/Repair is scheduled for 2020/2021

I wonder if this was ever planned because of taking out the dam.

It certainly was. 

Final Supplemental Environmental Impact Statement on Elwha Ecosystem Restoration Implementation (July 2005) link wrote:
Flooding.
Portions of the Olympic Hot Springs Road (Elwha Valley Road), paralleling the east side of the river channel, and the Elwha and Altair campgrounds in Olympic National Park also lie within  the 100-year floodplain.  The Elwha Ranger Station facilities near RM 12.1 are just 1 foot above the 100-year floodplain.  In addition to their location in  the  floodplain,  both  Hot  Springs Road and the Elwha Ranger Station are vulnerable to loss through bank erosion following dam removal.  Monitoring to determine whether bank erosion is occurring would take place during dam removal, and bank protection in the form of large angular rock,  engineered log jams, or a combination of the two would be applied as needed to stabilize the bank.  (page 62)

Impacts.
Elwha Valley Road (Olympic Hot Springs Road) —  Elwha Valley Road parallels the river on its east bank from U.S. Highway 101 to the Glines Canyon Dam.  Three sections of  the  road are overtopped by 5- to 10-year flood levels.  Removing the dams would increase the frequency that flood levels would close or damage the road.  The highly flood-prone areas occur between RM 8.1 and 8.4 (downstream of the training dike), between RM 9.8 and 10.2 (just upstream of the park entrance), and between RM 10.8 and 11.7 (the Elwha campground to the ranger station).  Flood depths over the road during a 10-year event can approach 2.5 feet at RM 11.1.  The impacts from dam removal at these locations would be relatively minor compared to existing conditions, and the following measures would provide existing levels of protection — raise about 1.0 mile of low-elevation road sections within the park, raise 0.3–0.6 mile of road outside the park, and armor select sections of the road.  These actions would not alleviate all future flood risk, but would reduce the severity of floods. (page 109)

Conclusion
All structures and facilities would be protected from any impact associated with dam removal and increased aggradation of riverbed sediments through the use of mitigation measures.  (page 111)


--------------
"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated.  It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon



Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 1749 | TRs
Location: North Dakota
moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon
PostTue Dec 19, 2017 6:24 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Pyrites wrote:
I wouldn’t put Mount Rushmore on the same list as Old Faithfull area. It was mined to be a tourist trap.

The similarity is in the "freeway" into the "Mall of America" style parking area and all the Chinese junk stores. My first visit to Rushmore was quite pleasant. Round a bend in the road and there was a typical NPS log cabin style visitors center. And, about the same at Yellowstone. Now both are just eyesores, regardless of what the original purpose was. So, that's my opinion of that.

--------------
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
trestle
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 1957 | TRs
Location: the Oly Pen
trestle
Member
PostTue Dec 19, 2017 8:11 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
According to this current road conditions page, the Upper Hoh Road is open as of 12/19/2017 and is the only access listed without notes. Perhaps it's an early present or just wishful thinking.

The Elwha/Whiskey Creek/Olympic Hot Springs Road closure is a huge loss, particularly in terms of dispersion for day visitors. Anyone have a link for overnight visitation revenue on the Elwha? I wonder how much they bring in but doubt it's enough to motivate expedited repairs.

--------------
"Life favors the prepared." - Edna Mode
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
RumiDude
Marmota olympus



Joined: 26 Jul 2009
Posts: 2369 | TRs
Location: Port Angeles
RumiDude
Marmota olympus
PostTue Dec 19, 2017 9:10 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
trestle wrote:
According to this current road conditions page, the Upper Hoh Road is open as of 12/19/2017 and is the only access listed without notes. Perhaps it's an early present or just wishful thinking.

The road was outside ONP and the responsibility of Jefferson County. There are residences and businesses up there before the entrance to ONP, so I am sure that expedited the road repair. Photos of the washout I saw undoubtedly caused them to reroute the road. If it had happened inside ONP ...

trestle wrote:
The Elwha/Whiskey Creek/Olympic Hot Springs Road closure is a huge loss, particularly in terms of dispersion for day visitors. Anyone have a link for overnight visitation revenue on the Elwha? I wonder how much they bring in but doubt it's enough to motivate expedited repairs.

They only had the entrance booth open on the weekends AFAIK. Occasionally there would be someone in it during the week. Both campgrounds up the Elwha are gone now so the nearest campground is at Fairholme at the west end of Lake Crescent is now the nearest campground to the Elwha.

My contention is that the Olympic Hot Springs Road should have been moved when the dams were taken out. Instead they waited until the Elwha River took the road out.

Rumi

--------------
Valhalla Outdoors
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
RodF
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 2373 | TRs
Location: Sequim WA
RodF
Member
PostTue Dec 19, 2017 11:06 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
trestle wrote:
The Elwha/Whiskey Creek/Olympic Hot Springs Road closure is a huge loss, particularly in terms of dispersion for day visitors. Anyone have a link for overnight visitation revenue on the Elwha? I wonder how much they bring in but doubt it's enough to motivate expedited repairs.

There's no connection between visitation revenue and road repairs. 
1) Visitor fees may by law only be used to provide and improve visitor facilities and services or conserve Park resources. 
2) Road repairs are paid for by several Federal Highway Administration programs, not by NPS or visitor fees.
3) National Parks were not established and are not run as revenue-generating business units, but in furtherance of national policies.

Elwha District Visitation
FY2017  38,836 reopened, now closed
FY2016          0  closed all year
FY2015 128,588 Whiskey Bend reopened then closed, Boulder Creek closed
FY2014 187,450
FY2013 160,061
FY2012 153,028
FY2011 144,526 Whiskey Bend closed
FY2010 95,870
FY2009 115,664
FY2008 112,109
FY2007 108,194
FY2006 112,723

Source: NPS Stats, OLYM visitation, YTD Reports for October (end of FY)

--------------
"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated.  It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
trestle
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 1957 | TRs
Location: the Oly Pen
trestle
Member
PostWed Dec 20, 2017 9:41 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Rod, do you know if the park is allocated a set amount for roads each year and then determines their own hierarchy for repairs or are the funds for roads and determination of need in the park managed elsewhere?

Rumi, I agree 100% that it should have been done simultaneously while the demolition closures were in place. Waiting until 2021 (and I'm reading on WTA that is the target date for road planning, not completion) will cause a huge gap in education opportunities for area students let alone recreation. As for campgrounds, the few RV parks in the area should see even more business and SSSHHHHH!!! don't tell anyone about the county facilities.

--------------
"Life favors the prepared." - Edna Mode
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
  Display:     All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Forum Index > Stewardship > How to get into ONP ~~~ Mission Nearly Impossible.
  Happy Birthday Dslayer!
Jump to:   
Search this topic:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
   Use Disclaimer Powered by phpBB Privacy Policy