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BdCast
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Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 238 | TRs | Pics
Location: Washington |
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BdCast
Member
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 Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:54 am |
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joker
seeker
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 7953 | TRs | Pics
Location: state of confusion |
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joker
seeker
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Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:55 am |
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I saw a post on WH&C FB group from someone who had bullets whizzing by on the NPS side of the Carbon River, with the shots heard from over across the river. It's always the idiots who ruin things for responsible folks.
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Ski
><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 12830 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma |
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Ski
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Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:16 am |
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In March of 2015 I posted a notice here about a volunteer clean-up in this same area.
At that time, I had lengthy phone conversations with the organizer of the event, Mr. Dave Workman, and a couple USFS law enforcement officers about this area and the issues involved with shooting on public lands.
This is an unfortunate turn of events, but seems to have become the inevitable outcome at these sites, because there is an element of our society that is apparently out of touch; they do not hear, nor do they listen to the outcry from local residents or the general public. (see Mr. Workman's comment below.)
| Dave Workman, in another thread long ago wrote: | | Some people are world class stupid and you can't fix that |
The closure of the area doesn't "solve" the problem. It will just disperse it to other areas and leave more little messes in more places instead of one gigantic mess in one place. (See also Hansen Creek Trailhead thread here)
I think it should be noted that with the population of Washington State increasing at an unprecedented rate, our urban and suburban populations are being pushed out of the urban areas and up into the foothills of the Cascades. This seems to be a fact that is either being ignored by the target shooting community or they refuse to accept that it will ultimately require some changes in their use patterns. The "we were here first" argument simply isn't going to cut it any more.
==
The comments on the Seattle Times website illustrate clearly how polarized our society has become.
I found some of this lady's comments a bit disturbing:
| schollw, on the Seattle Times website wrote: | | As a local volunteer since 2009 I have led and participated in clean-ups of many target shooting sites in the Greenwater White River Valley district. I have personally spent hours monitoring many Greenwater shooting locations observing and personally interacting with target shooters. To some gun enthusiasts reading this:
I'm the gray haired woman who gave you a garbage bag to pick-up your trigger trash as you were in the process of leaving and I likely helped you pick the mess up. I'm the one who approached and introduced myself as you were carrying that TV, microwave, water heater tank, pressurized flammable cans, binary explosive tannerite, propane tanks, hazardous toxic containers, and on an on to shoot at. I'm the one who was there handing you a paper target before you even took that stereo, electric heater, etc. out of your rig to shoot at. Anyone shooting at a non-biodegradable target is breaking the law.
Shooting at a flung clay pigeon only scatters shot 200 ft or so. Shooting at a clay pigeon with a handgun or a long gun sends a bullet over the ridge toward my home. Yes, I have personally observed this twice in the last 3 years at FS 7013. The right side of FS 7013 with open sky is within one mile the direction of my home which is optimum to flng and site in a clay pigeon. I actually have some of the bullets given to me from property owners that they found the last few years in our community.
Many of you comment that unsafe shooters will simply be dispersed to other locations,.....for years they already have. There is no accessible NFS spur road I know of that target shooters do not use. I can easily show anyone over 20 locations within 10 miles of my home with numerous mature trees bullet riddled, many completely shot down, an abundance of trigger trash and the usual empty liquor bottles or beer cans. The drinking and shooting in scattered forest niche areas any day easily exceeds the number of recreational shooters at FS 7013 or FS 70 quarry pit.
I'm not an environmental expert. However, I believe the FS 7013 shooting location will one day be the proven source of toxic rare earth metals, flame retardants and hazardous waste that have broken down and migrated into the Greenwater River.
The FS 7013 location has only been used by target shooters since it was logged I think about 2010. Late 60's, decades before this out of control shooting problem is when Crystal River Ranch and Crystal Village communities were first developed by Weyerhaeuser Quadrant. I have hiked, biked, mushroom foraged, skied and camped in the Greenwater Whiter River district since the late 60's. The local out of control unsafe trigger trash strewn target shooting has been an escalating problem since about 2003. It is incorrect for anyone to believe it is only a minority of target shooters that are unsafe and/or illegal. Come on up and observe for a few days. You will see for yourself unsafe illegal target shooters equal or out number responsible ones. Why don't responsible shooters monitor and directly work in the area at solving this problem one on one with the unsafe shooters? Why don't responsible shooters stop other shooters right next to them from shooting at illegal incendiary targets? Why do responsible shooters have blinders on and do nothing when those next to them are drinking and shooting? Why didn't responsible shooters correct unsafe shooters to direct their fire at the FS 7013 earthen bank instead of the thin stand of trees on the left which is a short distance to the FS 70 road?
For those of you gun enthusiasts who believe responsible organizations such as Waguns and other community service volunteers such as myself repeatedly cleaning up after unsafe shooters is enough...it is not enough! A solution must include recreational target shooting only allowed in established safe shooting ranges. A solution must require firearm safety training for every gun owner. A solution must have effective law enforcement monitoring and stiffer penalties, not just the minor misdemeanor or worse yet a verbal warning. I will never forgive nor will I stop trying to solve this complex problem since a target shooter at the FS 70 quarry pit turned around and purposely trained his handgun on me as I rode by 2005 on my bicycle. |
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 11276 | TRs | Pics
Location: Don't move here |
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:55 pm |
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It isn't a good thing to come around a corner in an area where you need to do some work in, and find people shooting in your direction. I have had polite, but firm conversations with a few shooters about such things. And, I have shot TVs, bottles, aerosols, etc. as a kid but it was at a legal dump. Much to our dismay, a TV did not explode like we expected it to. Perhaps we should have dumps again?
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Randito
Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 9512 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:17 pm |
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| Ski wrote: | | I think it should be noted that with the population of Washington State increasing at an unprecedented rate, |
Except that it isn't-- your entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts.
http://population.us/wa/
| Quote: | | Annual growth rate
[1850-1860] +25.45 %/yr
[1860-1870] +7.53 %/yr
[1870-1880] +12.11 %/yr
[1880-1890] +16.88 %/yr
[1890-1900] +3.79 %/yr
[1900-1910] +8.22 %/yr
[1910-1920] +1.74 %/yr
[1920-1930] +1.43 %/yr
[1930-1940] +1.05 %/yr
[1940-1950] +3.2 %/yr
[1950-1960] +1.83 %/yr
[1960-1970] +1.8 %/yr
[1970-1980] +1.94 %/yr
[1980-1990] +1.65 %/yr
[1990-2000] +1.93 %/yr
[2000-2010] +1.33 %/yr
[2010-2015] +1.29 %/yr |
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Joe
Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 819 | TRs | Pics
Location: Kent |
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Joe
Member
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Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:28 pm |
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Percentage growth is one measure, total population growth another. The population has more than doubled since 1970, averaging almost 860,000 per decade and nearly 1,000,000 per decade since 1990.
1970: 3,409,169
1980: 4,132,156
1990: 4,866,692
2000: 5,894,121
2010: 6,724,54
2018: 7,530,552 (estimate)
http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/washington-population/
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Randito
Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 9512 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:11 pm |
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How the population growth feels depends on a number of factors. A big factor being where you are living compared to where all the new houses are being built. If you live in Ballard the growth is felt by single family homes being replaced by apartments. In a rural area, having 1 dwelling per 5 acre replaced by subdivisions with 5000sqft lots feels overwhelming.
I've lived in area all my life and seen lots of wooded areas replaced by subdivisions and shopping malls -- but that was back in the '70s -- so I think how it feels is highly dependent on where the growth is happening relative to where you live.
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AlpineRose
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Joined: 08 May 2012
Posts: 1953 | TRs | Pics
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| Quote: | | This is an unfortunate turn of events, but seems to have become the inevitable outcome at these sites |
Why unfortunate? For reasonable, rational folk who care about safety, this is really good news.
The argument "they'll just go elsewhere" is meaningless. We have to start somewhere. That Greenwater location was among the worst. It's a very good start to shut this one down. Going forward, we can work to identify the worst of these places and shut them down one by one.
Considering what today is, I cannot help but reflect how this country was originally populated by social, religious, and economic misfits who - for whatever reason(s) - couldn't make it in their country of origin. Years and centuries later, the proliferation of these outdoor "free range" target shooting areas are merely but one symptom of the many neurosis embedded deeply in the American DNA.
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Ski
><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 12830 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:00 pm |
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| RandyHiker wrote: | | Except that it isn't-- |
nice try. Snohomish and Pierce Counties are two of the fastest-growing counties in the country right now, and have been for a few years.
keep trying though - even a blind hog finds an acorn once in a while.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Ski
><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 12830 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:02 pm |
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| AlpineRose wrote: | | Why unfortunate? |
I'm pretty sure I articulated those reason in my post above. Maybe you didn't bother to read it.
Or maybe you believe playing "whack-a-mole" trying to solve problems is a better strategic choice.
Good luck with that one.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Randito
Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 9512 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:06 pm |
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| Ski wrote: | | RandyHiker wrote: | | Except that it isn't-- |
nice try. Snohomish and Pierce Counties are two of the fastest-growing counties in the country right now, and have been for a few years.
keep trying though - even a blind hog finds an acorn once in a while. |
My bad, my response was based on the words you wrote, not on your revised statement in response.
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hikerman
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Joined: 24 May 2011
Posts: 330 | TRs | Pics
Location: Over There |
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hikerman
Member
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Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:27 pm |
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Don't worry. Only one of the two main pits is closed.
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Pahoehoe
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Joined: 12 Oct 2017
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Pahoehoe
Member
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Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:58 pm |
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I do not think people should be allowed to shoot on public land, period.
Managed shooting ranges (I suppose these could be on public land as a park or something) or private land if it's possible to be 100% sure the bullets will not enter anothers land without their knowledge/permission.
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MyFootHurts
Huge Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2011
Posts: 912 | TRs | Pics
Location: Kekistan |
This is now a census data thread because the usual suspects just cant stop nitpicking every little thing anyone says
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jbsimm2
WWLD?
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 335 | TRs | Pics
Location: Mountlake Terrace WA |
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jbsimm2
WWLD?
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Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:26 am |
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I do not think people should be allowed to hike on public land, Period.
I don't know the statistics, but I be the amount of people killed or injured by target shooting on public land is zero or at least statistically zero.
how many people are killed while hiking. I bet there are 3 threads about hiking related deaths just right on the top page on this very site. not to mention the vast amounts of money and volunteer hours expended by search and rescue. it looks like to me, that target shooting is a far safer use of public lands. you know, except for your feelings.
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