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AlpineRose
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PostTue Jan 02, 2018 4:26 pm 
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Until we actually become "one world", which is 99.99% unlikely in this iteration of the universe, there will be borders defining countries and other geographic constructs.  A country has the right to decide and regulate what goes on within its borders.

It can be debated whether limiting guiding on Everest to local Nepalese guides can make climbing Everest safer - there are just too many unmanageable objective hazards, but it can only help with creating local employment.  Something Nepal needs desperately.
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Chief Joseph
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PostTue Jan 02, 2018 8:17 pm 
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It's just sad that something like this will (likely) never happen again, or even that one might have the opportunity..

Mount Everest

Göran Kropp left Stockholm in October 1995, en route for Mount Everest.

For his 1996 ascent, Kropp left Stockholm on October 16, 1995, on a specially-designed bicycle with 108 kilograms (238 lb) of gear and food. He traveled 13,000 kilometres (8,000 mi) on the bicycle and arrived at Everest Base Camp in April 1996. Following a meeting of all of the Everest expeditions on the mountain at the time, it was agreed that Kropp would attempt to summit first. On May 3, Kropp climbed through thigh-deep snow and reached Everest's South Summit, a point 100 metres (328 ft) from the summit. However, he decided to turn around because it was too late in the day and if he continued, he would be descending in the dark. While Kropp recovered from the ordeal at base camp, the 1996 Everest Disaster unfolded. He helped bring medicine up the mountain. Three weeks later, on May 23, he again tackled the mountain, this time successfully summiting without extra oxygen support. He then cycled part of the way back home.

He returned to Everest in 1999 with his girlfriend Renata Chlumska to undertake a cleanup, during which they removed 25 discarded canisters from the mountain. They also successfully summited together.

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RandyHiker
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PostTue Jan 02, 2018 8:54 pm 
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Just_Some_Hiker wrote:
Relevance? Banning solo climbers will alleviate the burdens of the Napalese people how?

Solo climber's are not banned -- they simply have to hire and pay a Sherpa to accompany them.

Nepal needs wealthy people to visit the country and spend a lot of money.

Tourists/climbers going there on a shoestring budget doesn't help the Nepalese rebuild their homes and roads.
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RandyHiker
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PostTue Jan 02, 2018 9:24 pm 
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Chief Joseph wrote:
It's just sad that something like this will (likely) never happen again, or even that one might have the opportunity..

Mount Everest

Göran Kropp left Stockholm in October 1995, en route for Mount Everest.

For his 1996 ascent, Kropp left Stockholm on October 16, 1995, on a specially-designed bicycle with 108 kilograms (238 lb) of gear and food. He traveled 13,000 kilometres (8,000 mi) on the bicycle and arrived at Everest Base Camp in April 1996. Following a meeting of all of the Everest expeditions on the mountain at the time, it was agreed that Kropp would attempt to summit first. On May 3, Kropp climbed through thigh-deep snow and reached Everest's South Summit, a point 100 metres (328 ft) from the summit. However, he decided to turn around because it was too late in the day and if he continued, he would be descending in the dark. While Kropp recovered from the ordeal at base camp, the 1996 Everest Disaster unfolded. He helped bring medicine up the mountain. Three weeks later, on May 23, he again tackled the mountain, this time successfully summiting without extra oxygen support. He then cycled part of the way back home.

He returned to Everest in 1999 with his girlfriend Renata Chlumska to undertake a cleanup, during which they removed 25 discarded canisters from the mountain. They also successfully summited together.

It's cool that you can copy/paste Wikipedia articles.

It's also a fact that despite hard effort on his part to climb the icefall by his own route -- he needed to use the route constructed by the Sherpas.

A true completely unsupported solo climb of Mt Everest isn't really feasible -- at least on the Nepalise side.

The North Ridge route from Tibet might be more feasible for an unsupported solo climb -- at least from a mountaineering aspect.

So I wonder what China's policy is on granting permits for Everest expeditions of various sorts?  Not to mention a solo unsupported bike ride through northern China and Tibet.
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Chief Joseph
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PostTue Jan 02, 2018 11:31 pm 
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You're just jealous that you will never be as cool as he was.  cool.gif

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Byeguys
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PostWed Jan 03, 2018 7:18 am 
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Seeing some impassioned reactions to the new restrictions here. Anyone interested in taking a swing at how things are looking on the north side of the mountain?  lol.gif  lol.gif

I think there are probably a few more serious "freedoms" to get righteous over on that side than whether rich people need to hire someone to hike with them on the south side.

Poaching is always going to be an option.
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RandyHiker
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PostWed Jan 03, 2018 8:14 am 
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Doppelganger wrote:
Poaching is always going to be an option

Like these guys in the '60s that didn't have the $$$ for a permit and expedition hoopla that was expected in that era.

https://mprreader.win/ebook/free-download-four-against-everest-pdf-by-woodrow-wilson-sayre.html

The problem with poaching on the south route is the icefall-- the icefall passage is more a feat of engineering than mountaineering and it needs weeks to construct at the beginning of the season and needs to be maintained by "the ice doctors" a team of Sherpa that specialize in building and maintaining the route.   The risk to the Sherpa's lives to do this is not inconsequential and they deserve fair compensation.
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Malachai Constant
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PostWed Jan 03, 2018 8:30 am 
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Poaching is pretty much impossible these days. Lots of people, government officials, and press present at all times. Back in the 60's there was often years between expeditions. The Sherpa people did not spend much time there. It was easy to be trekking in the area and quickly bag a peak if you did it alpine style. As for the north approach it was an active war/genocide zone.

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Token Civilian
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PostWed Jan 03, 2018 10:52 am 
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So let me get this straight:

Facts:
The Government of Nepal, as the representative of the People of Nepal, owns that land.

They are choosing to change how that land can be used by foreigners.

Some 'Merican's don't like how the Government of Nepal is deciding how their land can be used in the future.


Action to take:
ok....so, the obvious response is to send in the Marines and USAF to kill and bomb the **** out of them until such time as self absorbed 'Merican's can do what they want, how they want and under what conditions they want and tell the locals to go to h*ll.

Seems par for the course.

Orrrrrrrrr......
Realize that (the south part of) Everest is in Nepal.  There is no fundamental right to enter or remain in Nepal, except if you are Nepalese - everyone else is a guest.  Part of being a sovereign nation includes the right to control how land within that nation is used, especially by guests, period.  So quityerbitchen.  Its their mountain, their rules.  Don't like the rules?  No one is sticking a gun to your head and forcing you onto their mountain.

No one would like a bunch of foreigners coming in and crapping all over Mt. Rainier however they damn please in violation of our rules.  Same same applies to Everest.
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Chief Joseph
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PostWed Jan 03, 2018 11:09 am 
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Yea true, climbing mountains is a waste of time, energy, and money anyway...especially Everest, Everest sucks.

Paying to climb a mountain is like paying to have your body mutilated by a tattoo artist, lol.

I wish I could find the drawing that the Angry Hiker posted of climbers hanging from ropes on a mountain when there is a perfectly good trail to the top. wink.gif

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Just_Some_Hiker
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PostWed Jan 03, 2018 11:20 am 
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Token Civilian wrote:
Some 'Merican's don't like...


...send in the Marines and USAF to kill and bomb the **** out of them


..self absorbed 'Merican's...


So quityerbitchen

I'm tired of this attitude. Americans built a successful nation and can now enjoy things in life beyond basic survival. So what?

Nepal is a poor, backwater country that has been enriched and made famous by westerners. Western climbers have helped to improve the local economy and the lives of the Napalese people. Sherpa porters and guides have incomes that they could never have even dreamed of previously. Stop making us the bad guys.
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RumiDude
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PostWed Jan 03, 2018 11:57 am 
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The reason I think this is interesting is because the actions don't really make sense and don't match up with the reasons given. I am also aware there has been a long standing attempt by the Sherpa to basically monopolize and/or control mountaineering in Nepal. As pointed out, the no-solo regulation seems to apply to the entire nation, not just Everest. It is not clear if the no blind or double amputee rules apply beyond Everest or not.

Anyway, it certainly is the prerogative of Nepal to do whatever they choose concerning mountaineering within their borders. I doubt these new rules are going to significantly change the economic situation of Nepal or put much of a dent in the burden of rebuilding after the devastation of the earthquakes of 2015.  The cost of rebuilding is billions of dollars.  There is no shortage on analysis of why the recovery from the earthquakes has failed, but I haven't seen any mention of mountaineering given as part of the issue.  Maybe I missed it.

Rumi

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texasbb
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PostWed Jan 03, 2018 12:26 pm 
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RumiDude wrote:
I think this is interesting is because the actions don't really make sense and don't match up with the reasons given.

Pretty much all government actions are interesting then!   smile.gif
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BigBrunyon
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PostWed Jan 03, 2018 12:28 pm 
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Just_Some_Hiker wrote:
I'm tired of this attitude. Americans built a successful nation and can now enjoy things in life beyond basic survival. So what?

Nepal is a poor, backwater country that has been enriched and made famous by westerners. Western climbers have helped to improve the local economy and the lives of the Napalese people. Sherpa porters and guides have incomes that they could never have even dreamed of previously. Stop making us the bad guys.

Look, here's the deal: Nepal is trying to make a buck, just like 'Merica has

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Just_Some_Hiker
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PostWed Jan 03, 2018 12:40 pm 
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BigBrunyon wrote:
Just_Some_Hiker wrote:
I'm tired of this attitude. Americans built a successful nation and can now enjoy things in life beyond basic survival. So what?

Nepal is a poor, backwater country that has been enriched and made famous by westerners. Western climbers have helped to improve the local economy and the lives of the Napalese people. Sherpa porters and guides have incomes that they could never have even dreamed of previously. Stop making us the bad guys.

Look, here's the deal: Nepal is trying to make a buck, just like 'Merica has

That's fair enough but I don't think this policy will benefit them in the long run. Increasing accessibility to their mountains would be more economically beneficial, I would think.
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