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moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon



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Happy Curmudgeon
PostThu Jan 04, 2018 8:54 am 
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Schroder wrote:
Article in the Herald

"Also, passes linked to vehicles are easier for rangers to enforce."

So how does / would this apply to out of state vehicles? Something seems to be missing here. I suppose they could just retain the Discover pass for non resident vehicles (but then as contour5 mentioned, it would be easier to just re-instate it for all)!

So we wait and watch.

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Malachai Constant
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PostThu Jan 04, 2018 9:20 am 
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Lots of states have higher fees for nonresidents

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boot up
Old Not Bold Hiker



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Old Not Bold Hiker
PostThu Jan 04, 2018 10:02 am 
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I like the Oregon state park pass setup, which is not associated with a specific car.

I pay $50 for a 2 year pass that I can switch between our cars, or use it if I am carpooling with someone else.   

Of course it is only required at 2 parks in my local area.   The nice thing is I use both those parks quite heavily.

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CC
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cascade curmudgeon
PostThu Jan 04, 2018 12:47 pm 
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Stefan wrote:
Or...we could not tax any corporations, and let the money go to the employees...and then let the employees...aka users....vote with their dollar to see if they want to support parks.  But I live in a dreamland.

Well you clearly do live in dreamland if you think the corps would give those savings to their employees.  The inflation-adjusted median wage has actually declined since the 80s despite a large increase in productivity.

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moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon



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Happy Curmudgeon
PostThu Jan 04, 2018 1:29 pm 
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Malachai Constant wrote:
Lots of states have higher fees for nonresidents

That would be assumed, but my wondering was centered around how to implement the "out of state" passes. Continue with the current purchase process as is, or maybe just buy one at the park (which would increase the cost by jillions - building all the shelters, hiring all the employees, etc). Besides, I'll just use my son's car when we go exploring, save myself a lot of grief.

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Cyclopath
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Faster than light
PostThu Jan 04, 2018 5:07 pm 
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brineal wrote:
Ultimately I feel as a taxpayer that I've already made my financial contribution to public lands.  That being said, the $30 is really not a huge deal given the amount of recreation I do per year.

I do have a big issue with them requiring it in your vehicle - Rangers / DNR etc. - you should be able to look that up in a database at any time.  And the fact that they will not replace lost or stolen passes is ridiculous.  Again, they should be able to easily verify you've paid and each is associated with a license plate sooo.....

But there's no internet reception at a lot of trailheads.  Police could have a cached copy of the database in their vehicle, but then you'll get a ticket if you use the pass the day you buy it.

Otherwise I agree.
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MyFootHurts
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PostThu Jan 04, 2018 7:48 pm 
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You people talking about "looking it up in a database" have no idea what you're talking about.
I use that "database" as a regular part of my job.
First off will take hundreds, or thousands of man-hours to enter the records and keep it updated. Secondly, who exactly will enter these records? Are we going to give store clerks the required Level 2 training in WASIC and background checks needed to enter the records?
Well each point of sale is looking at a minimum $100,000 dollars or so to get the secured WASIC switch equipment required by WSP for an agency to participate in the "database".
Well store clerks don't get to have WASIC access anyway so that leaves WSP. Every store that sells a discover pass will then send that info to WSP, who has nothing better than to do then enter Discover pass information into WASIC.
I'm sure if you buy a Discover pass on Friday @ 4:55pm good lucking thinking it will be in the "database" any time before Monday.
Next question - what if its an out of state plate? Now you need NCIC access and need to meet all the FBI requirements to participate in the interstate system.
And what happens if the vehicle is sold? Who updates the "database"? DOL?
Also as mentioned, if Ranger Rick doesn't have radio or internet service where he's at its all a waste of time anyway.


Or maybe you can just be a responsible adult and keep your Discover pass safe and display it properly when required?

But hey, you people know it all. Who am I to argue? Just "look it up in a database herr derrrppp".
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xrp
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Tactical Backpacker
PostThu Jan 04, 2018 8:56 pm 
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cascadeclimber wrote:
How about we ask wildly profitably companies like Amazon, Microsoft, and Google to pay something more than $0 in state and local taxes? Then we might be able to afford to properly fund our public schools, provide free access to public land again, and fix our rapidly deteriorating transit issues...

They already do, via the sales taxes, property taxes, etc that they pay. Not to mention the taxes that every WA based employee of theirs also pays.

Regarding public school funding -- move employees to a 401(k) because the funding gap is for the bloated employee retirement ripoff that the taxpayers are on the hook for.

Free access to public lands -- National Forests are free. Go there. Or did you want someone to fund your transportation costs for you because you are a freeloader?

Transit issues -- What happens to all that gas tax money that WA state collects? WA has about 171,031 lane miles of roads and a 44.5 cent tax per gallon. Contrast that with Kentucky having 165,944 lane miles of roads and only a 27.6 cent tax per gallon. Translation: WA's corrupt government squanders money.
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xrp
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Tactical Backpacker
PostThu Jan 04, 2018 9:05 pm 
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CC wrote:
Stefan wrote:
Or...we could not tax any corporations, and let the money go to the employees...and then let the employees...aka users....vote with their dollar to see if they want to support parks.  But I live in a dreamland.

Well you clearly do live in dreamland if you think the corps would give those savings to their employees.  The inflation-adjusted median wage has actually declined since the 80s despite a large increase in productivity.

You're a complete fool if you don't think that companies like Amazon, Microsoft, etc aren't paying their employees great salaries. Sure, people who work in Amazon's distribution centers don't make $150,000/year, but you can bet the HQ people (Seattle) are averaging $150k/year.

Those companies are at the top of the stack of "companies people want to work for", so you can bet they can be picky about selecting the top talent. Top talent means offering top compensation.
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Kim Brown
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PostThu Jan 04, 2018 9:12 pm 
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xrp wrote:
WA has about 171,031 lane miles of roads and a 44.5 cent tax per gallon. Contrast that with Kentucky having 165,944 lane miles of roads and only a 27.6 cent tax per gallon.

Kentucky has a state income tax.

And some WA gas tax is tossed into NOVA funds, which goes to both motorized and non-motorized trails.

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boot up
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Old Not Bold Hiker
PostThu Jan 04, 2018 9:34 pm 
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Kim Brown wrote:
And some WA gas tax is tossed into NOVA funds, which goes to both motorized and non-motorized trails.

I am not sure the 1% of the gas tax allocated to NOVA makes a whole lot of impact to the cost of gas.

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xrp
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Tactical Backpacker
PostThu Jan 04, 2018 9:37 pm 
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Kim Brown wrote:
xrp wrote:
WA has about 171,031 lane miles of roads and a 44.5 cent tax per gallon. Contrast that with Kentucky having 165,944 lane miles of roads and only a 27.6 cent tax per gallon.

Kentucky has a state income tax.

And some WA gas tax is tossed into NOVA funds, which goes to both motorized and non-motorized trails.

Big deal. WA tax burden per capita is $7000+ (https://www.ofm.wa.gov/washington-data-research/statewide-data/washington-trends/revenue-expenditures-trends/state-local-government-revenues-capita).

Kentucky's is around $3,300 (2012 is latest data available here: https://taxfoundation.org/kentuckys-state-and-local-tax-burden/)
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Kim Brown
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PostThu Jan 04, 2018 9:48 pm 
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boot up wrote:
Kim Brown wrote:
And some WA gas tax is tossed into NOVA funds, which goes to both motorized and non-motorized trails.

I am not sure the 1% of the gas tax allocated to NOVA makes a whole lot of impact to the cost of gas.

Just pointing out that Kentucky has a state tax and that some WA gas tax is used for recreation. I don't see in my post where I claimed it was a boon.

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RandyHiker
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PostThu Jan 04, 2018 10:37 pm 
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xrp wrote:
Big deal. WA tax burden per capita is $7000+ (https://www.ofm.wa.gov/washington-data-research/statewide-data/washington-trends/revenue-expenditures-trends/state-local-government-revenues-capita).

Kentucky's is around $3,300 (2012 is latest data available here: https://taxfoundation.org/kentuckys-state-and-local-tax-burden/)

Interesting way to cherry pick data from different sources.

The Tax Foundation shows that KY's state and local tax burden is 9.5%  vs WA's of 9.3%

https://taxfoundation.org/publications/state-local-tax-burden-rankings

KY's per captita income is about half of WA -- feel free to move to KY
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RumiDude
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Marmota olympus
PostThu Jan 04, 2018 10:56 pm 
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RandyHiker wrote:
KY's per captita income is about half of WA -- feel free to move to KY

+1

No Kidding! Comparing KY to WA is a joke. I lived in KY for a while and know how poor that state is in almost everything ... except when it comes to race horses.

Rumi

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