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Ringangleclaw
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Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 1559 | TRs | Pics
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Don't have the magazine or a url of the image, but right on page 8&9 of the February Outside is a photo taken from inside the caves of a young lady also inside the caves. How they both survived is beyond me, I guess we'll have to get the USFS to close the magazine now.
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Chief Joseph
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Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 7709 | TRs | Pics
Location: Verlot-Priest Lake |
I have tempted fate enough times, I have no further desire to enter the caves.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 11277 | TRs | Pics
Location: Don't move here |
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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 Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:32 am |
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Sometimes, Outside glorifies stupidity.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Chief Joseph
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Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 7709 | TRs | Pics
Location: Verlot-Priest Lake |
I find it ironic when people refer to entering the ice caves as "stupid" yet you never hear them say that about climbing mountains. 
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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cambajamba
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Joined: 05 Nov 2011
Posts: 339 | TRs | Pics
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Can anyone swinging by a store today snag me a picture of the offending pages? I'm always trying to curb stuff like this - big organizations concentrating or suggesting use in unhelpful ways.
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AlpineRose
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Joined: 08 May 2012
Posts: 1953 | TRs | Pics
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I thought that Big Four Ice Caves picture was completely irresponsible. I thought of writing to Outside about it, but never did.
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JonnyQuest
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Joined: 10 Dec 2013
Posts: 593 | TRs | Pics
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Quick google search brought up this link...
Big 4 link
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Schenk
Off Leash Man
Joined: 16 Apr 2012
Posts: 2372 | TRs | Pics
Location: Traveling, with the bear, to the other side of the Mountain |
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Schenk
Off Leash Man
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Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:58 pm |
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| Chief Joseph wrote: | | I find it ironic when people refer to entering the ice caves as "stupid" yet you never hear them say that about climbing mountains. |
Not all mountains have the same objective danger level. Routes to the top of some are as safe as a stroll on the golf course, maybe safer! hahaha.
This is a bad comparison because real mountain climbers are not a bunch of rookies jumping out of the family van and then hiking a few minutes past warning signs into the middle of a melting ice cave.
People who climb mountains in a serious manner practice skills and learn about things like mountain weather, snow pack evaluation, navigation, snow travel, rock and ice technique, objective hazard evaluation, first aid, gear repair, and generally taking responsibility for their own safety.
What do those people venturing into the ice caves learn and practice beforehand to help reduce their exposure to danger ?
twitter and facebook posts?
Nature exists with a stark indifference to humans' situation.
Nature exists with a stark indifference to humans' situation.
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Chief Joseph
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Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 7709 | TRs | Pics
Location: Verlot-Priest Lake |
| Schenk wrote: | | This is a bad comparison |
Many people still die, so I think it's a good comparison.
What if a "Professional Caver" died while exploring the interior of the Big 4 ice caves even though they were experienced and used proper safety gear?
People here would still say they were an idiot.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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AlpineRose
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Joined: 08 May 2012
Posts: 1953 | TRs | Pics
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Mountain climbers manage objective hazards. The objective hazards (falling ice, collapse) of the Big Four Ice Caves cannot be managed, except by staying out. So the comparison between the two as regards danger and stupidity/idiocy is not a good one.
A better comparison would be a climber climbing a steep, hard snow slope with bad runout without an ice axe or crampons. Or a skier venturing into avalanche terrain on an extreme hazard day without transceiver, shovel or probe. Or even with.
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Chief Joseph
Member
Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 7709 | TRs | Pics
Location: Verlot-Priest Lake |
| AlpineRose wrote: | | Mountain climbers manage objective hazards. |
Sure, but many, even the highest regarded mountaineers climb in conditions where they know they are likely to die or be seriously injured, yet they still climb.
People who enter the ice caves are being careless with their lives and no matter how much training and experience they have, they still have a higher chance of dying than someone who enters the caves.
I am mainly referring to high altitude mountaineering.
I don't care if someone is a highly trained professional or a rank amatuer, some (like me) think they are being stupid and risking their lives.
Spin it anyway you like, it's still the same, that being putting ones life at risk for adventure.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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Kim Brown
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Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Posts: 6899 | TRs | Pics
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| Chief Joseph wrote: | | putting ones life at risk for adventure. |
And its worse that Outside is putting lives at risk for profit.
But I don't think all those who go into the ice caves are stupid.
I went inside first time I saw them. Having lived in Texas for nearly 20 years, I didn't know the ways of an ice cave. Or the large rocks on the cliffs above them.
It was honest ignorance.
HOWEVER, there are hazard signs along the trail nowadays. Big yellow ones. The photographer and subject admit to seeing them. That is stupid.
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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Chief Joseph
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Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 7709 | TRs | Pics
Location: Verlot-Priest Lake |
| Kim Brown wrote: | | Chief Joseph wrote: | | putting ones life at risk for adventure. |
And its worse that Outside is putting lives at risk for profit. |
I agree
HOWEVER, there are hazard signs along the trail. Big yellow ones. The photographer and subject admit to seeing them. That is stupid.[/quote]
There are also warning signs about the dangers of climbing mountains. Her's one. https://www.redbull.com/us-en/the-world-s-most-dangerous-peak-beckons
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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cambajamba
Member
Joined: 05 Nov 2011
Posts: 339 | TRs | Pics
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Isn't access to the caves technically closed? Or is it just warnings?
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 7740 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:07 am |
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| Chief Joseph wrote: | | What if a "Professional Caver" died while exploring the interior of the Big 4 ice caves even though they were experienced and used proper safety gear? |
A "professional caver" surely has more interesting places to be than Big 4.
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