Previous :: Next Topic |
Author |
Message |
treeswarper Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 11277 | TRs | Pics Location: Don't move here |
|
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
|
Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:23 am
|
|
|
There was also the deaths in the snow cave incident in the 1980s. I forget how many died, but the rescue parties could not find the snow cave as it was buried in the storm. I believe the victims were high school seniors on a school sponsored climb.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
|
Back to top |
|
|
treeswarper Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 11277 | TRs | Pics Location: Don't move here |
|
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
|
Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:04 am
|
|
|
Here it is. 1986.
Mt Hood Disaster
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
|
Back to top |
|
|
Just_Some_Hiker Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2013 Posts: 691 | TRs | Pics Location: Snoqualmie, WA |
What a complete sh## show. One of the "expert consultants" developed snow blindness even before the main incident took place. Why wasn't he wearing glacier glasses?????? Expert????
Then when the storm rolled in, the group stood around in the elements for TWO hours while a couple people took turns digging a small snow cave with the one shovel the group had. They could have descended entirely in that time, even in a whiteout. Once you're clear of the area around Devil's Kitchen it's just one long, gentle slope down to Timberline. Rope together, get out your compass and head SW until you run into trees or a ski resort.
|
Back to top |
|
|
treeswarper Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 11277 | TRs | Pics Location: Don't move here |
|
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
|
Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:47 am
|
|
|
If I remember correctly, the weather forecast was not good. I have a memory of listening to very scratchy KGW reporting on the AM pickup radio and rain pouring down at our elevation.
And yes, many mistakes were made. The pressure was on to reach the summit in order to fulfill a graduation requirement.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
|
Back to top |
|
|
Kascadia Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2014 Posts: 651 | TRs | Pics
|
|
Kascadia
Member
|
Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:47 am
|
|
|
Just_Some_Hiker wrote: | One of the "expert consultants" developed snow blindness even before the main incident took place. Why wasn't he wearing glacier glasses? |
I wondered if he gave them to one of the students (given their level of "preparedness") and thought he could get away with it ...
This incident also initiated this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Locator_Unit
It is as though I had read a divine text, written into the world itself, not with letters but rather with essential objects, saying:
Man, stretch thy reason hither, so thou mayest comprehend these things. Johannes Kepler
It is as though I had read a divine text, written into the world itself, not with letters but rather with essential objects, saying:
Man, stretch thy reason hither, so thou mayest comprehend these things. Johannes Kepler
|
Back to top |
|
|
Just_Some_Hiker Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2013 Posts: 691 | TRs | Pics Location: Snoqualmie, WA |
Doppelganger wrote: | You're making your second post in this thread about misinformation and how climbing stories are misrepresented, then you're gonna trust some 30 year old accounts and articles? OK! Let's see what you got wrong. |
I'm not a professional reporter writing an article for mass consumption. I'm just a guy on a forum who typed a quick blurb about a 30-year old incident.
Doppelganger wrote: | Next time I find myself on a long, gentle slope in whiteout conditions, I guess I'll give you a call. Sounds like a piece of cake to get out of, how stupid do you have to be to not pick the right direction and just keep walking right!!! /s |
Maybe you should. I've descended Hood several times in whiteout conditions without an issue.
|
Back to top |
|
|
Randito Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008 Posts: 9513 | TRs | Pics Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
|
Randito
Snarky Member
|
Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:56 pm
|
|
|
DIYSteve wrote: | When we climbed Hood 30 years ago, most rope teams were traversing across an icy exposed spot with no pro, basically a mutual suicide pact. |
This incident was worse than just the one rope team pulling each other down. The rope caught up other unrelated climbers as this team slid down. Essentially they "flossed" the pearly gates clean of climbers.
Hard to protect against such a hazard.
|
Back to top |
|
|
Just_Some_Hiker Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2013 Posts: 691 | TRs | Pics Location: Snoqualmie, WA |
Doppelganger wrote: | Just_Some_Hiker wrote: | I'm not a professional reporter writing an article for mass consumption. I'm just a guy on a forum who typed a quick blurb about a 30-year old incident. |
I'm not sure what this changes. It took me 10 minutes to search for and find the facts I didn't recall immediately. If you're lazy that's fine, but you should consider it before posting **** like that. |
I keep forgetting the fact that you can't post ANYTHING on the internet without somebody getting offended. I was not attempting to inform anyone of the detailed facts of the incident. SOMEONE ELSE posted a link to an article which I was merely commenting on.
Doppelganger wrote: | OK. Keep taking that for granted. |
You can stop being pompous. I take the mountains VERY seriously, and I don't go out of my way to be in storms or whiteouts. It has happened, however, and the best option in those cases was to descend rather than risk death from exposure.
Now, you can stop white-knighting on behalf of people that have been dead for 30-years. SORRY, I mean 32-years. I didn't mean to misinform!
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mikey Member
Joined: 04 Sep 2003 Posts: 737 | TRs | Pics Location: SW Washington |
|
Mikey
Member
|
Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:38 pm
|
|
|
The annual Accidents in North American Mountaineering report (paperback book) published annually by the American Alpine Club contains good descriptions and analyses of the accidents. I realize the annual report comes out a considerable time after a mountaineering accident has occurred.
Accidents in North American Mountaineering reports can be purchased via Amazon, etc. Kindle versions are around $10 and paperback are around $12.
Used paperback issues are available at Abebooks for about $3.48 to$3.65 + free shipping.
With regards to climbing in a whiteout, many years ago, I led a climb of Glacier Peak (Sept labor day weekend) in bad weather with high wind, whiteout, sleet, snow, rain, and fog and we used many wands, compass, & altimeter and did OK (the summit photo shows rime on our hats, etc and we look sort of like popsicles). Some on this climb were more experienced climbers than I was - but I was the only one familiar with the route so they convinced me to lead or perhaps "route find" is a more accurate description. This was the Sitkum Glacier route.
|
Back to top |
|
|
Randito Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008 Posts: 9513 | TRs | Pics Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
|
Randito
Snarky Member
|
Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:50 pm
|
|
|
As for descending quickly in a whiteout. Often easier said than done. I've been in fog thick enough that I couldn't see my ski tips. This makes travel very difficult even for people with a lot of experience. I've also been on trips where thick fog developed quickly and other party members experienced vertigo just trying to stand up and had to crawl down. Fortunately for me all these times the fog line was only a very short distance below and visibility improved.
|
Back to top |
|
|
jared_j Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 298 | TRs | Pics
|
|
jared_j
Member
|
Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:26 pm
|
|
|
Regarding the armchairing of the old accident, the impression I get is that just_some_hiker does a lot of solo trips; I do, as well. I think "the power of the team" can also become "the boatanchor of the team". When solo, it is sometimes easier to maintain focus, more nimbly adjust based on feedback from terrain etc. When there's a group, particularly if there's any air of democracy to things, progress can slow to a snail's pace in difficult conditions. It shouldn't be that way, but it can be. If the discipline and order of the military could be imposed on groups of folks moving together on the mountains, then perhaps you could have different outcomes. I'm not excusing poor decision making, but suggesting that context can matter.
|
Back to top |
|
|
Schroder Member
Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 6722 | TRs | Pics Location: on the beach |
|
Schroder
Member
|
Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:15 pm
|
|
|
From what I read, they experienced very extreme weather conditions - high wind and rain. From one account:
Quote: | "One of the guys slipped," said climber Quinn Talley of Welches, Oregon, who had been descending after summiting around 8 a.m. "At first he was just sliding and right before he disappeared, he started cartwheeling."
Talley, who said he's climbed the mountain about 20 times and has never seen worse conditions, said he tried to reach the man, but the ice was too dangerous.
"Normally, you like a frozen crust on snow so your crampons don't ball up with snow, but this is different," Talley said. "With the rain and freeze cycles, there's something called rime ice ... and it's really loose and normally it's just fluffy. But these were like dinner plates, hard ice dinner plates." |
The description of hard ice dinner plates is something I've only experienced once in over 50 years of climbing. You can see it in the rescue photos.
|
Back to top |
|
|
Schroder Member
Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 6722 | TRs | Pics Location: on the beach |
|
Schroder
Member
|
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:50 pm
|
|
|
This AP Article in the Herald describes the conditions they were in:
Terror, heroism revealed in Oregon climbing death 911 calls
Quote: | Sumi had come to rest in the shadow of a rocky outcropping known as Crater Rock, stuck in a chute that acted like a natural funnel for a barrage of rocks that slammed down the mountain as the sun warmed the ice and sent ice and rocks plummeting downhill.
As Jurasevich inched closer, those rocks careened past, making rumbling sounds in the background of the call. A terrified Jurasevich tells the operator he’s not an experienced climber and doesn’t know what he’s doing, but will stay with Sumi until help arrives.
“Oh my God, a rock just went right by him. The sun’s out and it’s bad. The whole hill is falling apart,” he says, breathing heavily into his mobile phone.
“We’re still taking rocks and ice. … Can you take a message for my mom for me? Tell her I love her,” Jurasevich says a few moments later. “I’m in a bad spot.” |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cascadeclimber Member
Joined: 04 Sep 2006 Posts: 1427 | TRs | Pics
|
Nowhere in the Cascades have I ever seen the weather change as fast as the snowfield above the Palmer lift. Went from clear skies to not able to see my partner 10 meters away in 15 minutes.
That slope is like the Muir Snowfield: In poor vis it's easy to go down the fall line and end up way, way down the Zig Zag glacier. It happens routinely. People who know better (again like the Muir Snowfield) tend to buck the fall line too much and end up down the White River glacier basin (Paradise glacier on Rainier).
Add strong wind into the equation and it's easy to stare right at a compass bearing and end up moving 45 degrees tangent to the bearing without realizing it.
So I do see how people get lost on the south side of Hood. But I'm still baffled by people who get lost for days on I-90 hikes, where you either go north or south and inevitably reach a 2500 mile cross-country freeway.
As to the routine clothes-linings that happen above the Hogsback...if you aren't setting running gear to catch a fall on a slope like that, don't rope up. If you are starting up and see people roped up with no running gear, find another route, wait, or go home. But don't climb under them.
|
Back to top |
|
|
DIYSteve seeking hygge
Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 12655 | TRs | Pics Location: here now |
|
DIYSteve
seeking hygge
|
Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:40 pm
|
|
|
cascadeclimber wrote: | As to the routine clothes-linings that happen above the Hogsback...if you aren't setting running gear to catch a fall on a slope like that, don't rope up. |
I agree, although IME 90% of Hood standard route climbers do not follow that advice.
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Disclosure: As an Amazon Associate NWHikers.net earns from qualifying purchases when you use our link(s).
|