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sooperfly
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PostFri Mar 16, 2018 10:43 pm 
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Will be interesting to see how this goes.  Hopefully the repairs get done and there isn't any flooding.

Eightmile dam emergency
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NacMacFeegle
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PostMon Mar 19, 2018 4:43 pm 
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Instead of repairing it they should remove it, as should have been done long ago!
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RodF
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PostMon Mar 19, 2018 10:27 pm 
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NacMacFeegle wrote:
Instead of repairing it they should remove it, as should have been done long ago!

Did you read the article?  It answers your question.  Sorry, I guess that wasn't a question.

"The districts have been reluctant to make any major repairs to the lake because the lake is within the wilderness.  The existence and use of this reservoir is of the highest importance to the districts and our watershed.  It makes it possible for us to grow the crops that we do within the Wenatchee Watershed and improves instream flows.  There are currently seven reservoirs within the wilderness, all of them were created before the wilderness was created.  They represent the only significant water storage within the Wenatchee Watershed.  Of these reservoirs Eight Mile Lake has the highest refill ratio; it is the most likely to refill even during an extreme drought."

Another answer is: (1) since the dams are permanent structures predating wilderness designation, (2) but Wilderness is "an area of undeveloped Federal land without permanent improvements", (3) the Wilderness designation was in error and should be corrected to exclude them.

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NacMacFeegle
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PostMon Mar 19, 2018 11:38 pm 
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I don't think alpine lakes should be used as reservoirs in general - whether they're part of designated wilderness or not. I'd advocate removing the dam from Eightmile and the other seven reservoirs even if they did not lie within the Alpine lakes wilderness. Every natural lake I've visited that has had a dam added to it is greatly diminished, if not completely ruined, by the operation of that dam. The Wenatchee valley should switch to dry land farming methods that don't require irrigation.
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RandyHiker
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PostTue Mar 20, 2018 6:07 am 
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How does NacMacFeegal feel about Grand Coluee?
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treeswarper
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PostTue Mar 20, 2018 6:15 am 
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NacMacFeegle wrote:
I don't think alpine lakes should be used as reservoirs in general - whether they're part of designated wilderness or not. I'd advocate removing the dam from Eightmile and the other seven reservoirs even if they did not lie within the Alpine lakes wilderness. Every natural lake I've visited that has had a dam added to it is greatly diminished, if not completely ruined, by the operation of that dam. The Wenatchee valley should switch to dry land farming methods that don't require irrigation.

Are you serious or just trolling?

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thunderhead
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PostTue Mar 20, 2018 7:02 am 
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Dams are one of the most environmentally friendly tools in operation.  They provide irrigation, flood control, and cheap emissionless power(dispatchable and storable too), all in exchange for stopping the movement of a few fish.

Build more of em, I say.
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JVesquire
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PostTue Mar 20, 2018 7:45 am 
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This is a piece of an overall larger issue related to the Icicle Work Group and whether dams should be upgraded, storage capacity in wilderness increased, etc. You got the district's perspective in the article. Opponents believe the need is related to wanting to build more development and golf courses. So there's more a lot more going on here than just an emergency declaration related to the Jack Creek fire.
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treeswarper
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PostTue Mar 20, 2018 7:46 am 
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Note the average precipitation for Wenatchee.

Let them eat dust

I suggest that the one who wants them to dry farm go over, buy some land, and set an example of what to do.  That's what a leader would do.  Show how to grow crops that one can make a living on, and still feed folks without irrigation in a desert--that means using only the average 9.9 inches of precipitation which is mainly from snowfall.  The latter may have changed a bit.

Go over, stand on a soapbox at a fruit warehouse and yell, "Tear down those orchards!"  Then explain what you plan to replace them.  Dustbowl tourism?

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treeswarper
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PostTue Mar 20, 2018 7:49 am 
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JVesquire wrote:
This is a piece of an overall larger issue related to the Icicle Work Group and whether dams should be upgraded, storage capacity in wilderness increased, etc. You got the district's perspective in the article. Opponents believe the need is related to wanting to build more development and golf courses. So there's more a lot more going on here than just an emergency declaration related to the Jack Creek fire.

Can you provide a link those projects?

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HitTheTrail
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PostTue Mar 20, 2018 8:02 am 
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NacMacFeegle wrote:
Every natural lake I've visited that has had a dam added to it is greatly diminished, if not completely ruined, by the operation of that dam.

Nice alpine lake not destroyed by the dam.

Irrigation dam on the lake build over 100 years ago
Irrigation dam on the lake build over 100 years ago
Steve getting a line wet
Steve getting a line wet
Slightly better air at the lake.
Slightly better air at the lake.
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Schroder
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PostTue Mar 20, 2018 8:42 am 
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I recall this topic being discussed extensively in a thread a few years back.  As for this article


Quote:
They represent the only significant water storage within the Wenatchee Watershed

I think this is a bit of an exaggeration. What about Lake Wenatchee and all the headwaters above coming from the glaciers in the Wenatchee Range?  How much volume is actually added by the dam at Eightmile?  How useful is it when the outflow is not regulated?
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thunderhead
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PostTue Mar 20, 2018 10:51 am 
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Ya, they probably should specify controllable storage.  The natural lakes and the snowpack itself being uncontrollable, spiking in May-June and dropping off later in the dry summer season.
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RodF
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PostTue Mar 20, 2018 11:48 am 
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thunderhead wrote:
Ya, they probably should specify controllable storage.  The natural lakes and the snowpack itself being uncontrollable, spiking in May-June and dropping off later in the dry summer season.

I assume Eightmile sustains base flows (late August, early September), reduces stream temperatures, so benefits fish, too?  I assume this has also been studied?

On the other hand, all lakes are impounded by obstructions...
NacMacFeegle wrote:
I don't think alpine lakes should be used as reservoirs in general - whether they're part of designated wilderness or not.

perhaps we might accelerate the natural forces of erosion and siphon or blast the outlets of natural lakes and drain them, too?

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NacMacFeegle
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PostTue Mar 20, 2018 12:51 pm 
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RodF wrote:
On the other hand, all lakes are impounded by obstructions...
NacMacFeegle wrote:
I don't think alpine lakes should be used as reservoirs in general - whether they're part of designated wilderness or not.

perhaps we might accelerate the natural forces of erosion and siphon or blast the outlets of natural lakes and drain them, too?

rolleyes.gif

A natural lake shore typically experiences only a moderate amount of fluctuation in water level, thus maintaining an established shoreline.

Dams managed for irrigation result in large fluctuations in water level. This results in a lack of an established shoreline, which has a number of negative repercussions. It disrupts aquatic and riparian ecosystems, and at low water this means an ugly, muddy bathtub ring.

RandyHiker wrote:
How does NacMacFeegal feel about Grand Coluee?

I dislike dams in general, but I wouldn't call Grand Coulee the worst offender. Hydropower is relatively clean (though not so clean as is widely believed once the large footprint, greenhouse gas release from decaying vegetation, and the negative impact on water quality are taken into account), so I have to grudgingly admit that some hydroelectric dams are currently necessary. Grand Coulee's biggest problem is it's glaring lack of a fish ladder. Install a fish ladder, remove unnecessary flood control dams in the Columbia watershed, and I could tolerate Grand Coulee's existence.

However, I do not consider flood control or irrigation to be valid justifications for dams. Flood control and irrigation dams are just band aid solutions that enable us to avoid confronting difficult long term problems. We wouldn't need flood control if idiots wouldn't insist on building where they shouldn't, and irrigation wouldn't be unnecessary if we mandated rainfall only farming techniques and took responsibility for our out-of-control population growth.

Flood control and irrigation only serve to postpone problems, and that postponement will only exacerbate those problems when we must inevitably confront them in the future.
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