[schifferj]

[markh752]

A lot of good suggestions (that WaState ignored) in this and other threads that WaState started. The best suggestion by a poster that I taught my preteen kids (now teens) was to occasionally look behind at crucial points and memorize. This could be a trail junction, a gully traverse, what drainage did we come up or simply an unusually shaped tree. The other advice was to use your instincts. My kids are better at both of these than me (when we hike together). We don't flag, mark trees or build cairns. We prepare and pay attention. WaState can have his survivalist attitude. I prefer a simpler and more lightweight (working on it) to hiking/backpacking and exploring (working on it)!

[gb]

[Cyclopath]

[moonspots]

[WaState]

So, this is good, some thinking about younger people, navigation beginners and kids, what to teach, what not to teach, what is written about etc. Me I would teach everything, others would not. That is on the teacher, what can you live with? In reality people go out into the woods all the time with only back tracking skills. This is the reality, it is not an avocation of going out in far back country without all the gear and skills. The most likely people to be caught out in trouble with nothing but back tracking skills are children or beginners of some age. If you feel fear of using only back tracking skills, then you need to improve your skills, that is my opinion. Of course if you use ALL the skills the chances of coming back are very good no matter how difficult of situation. If you restrict yourself to only following back foot prints, that is harder. I never have used any kind of marking over the years on my personal trips out. I have seen flags already out at times and often glad to have them. In reality back tracking is used by most in local woods, short jaunts to go out in the wilderness for some reason. Shorter walks, kids playing in the woods and so on. This is where people of rural background learn their back tracking skills usually by an instinctive manner. Urban youth, or city youth are much more likely not to have this skill due to their situation. Their parents are more likely not to have this skill, either. What to teach and when is a choice, there are no exact right answers on this question I suspect.

[WaState]

The most basic back tracking skill is noting land marks on the way in and remembering them on the way back. I have mentioned that in past posts, a simple basic backtracking skill that works 99% of the time unless inside dense woods or anyplace that has few unique enough landmarks or hard to see landmarks. As far as practicing back tracking, it usually can be done in local woods were being surrounded by civilization--it is a safe place to practice. Other than that it can be done by carrying all the navigation gear and leaving it in the backpack until getting lost. Best to have a GPS in the backpack in that case, one that is tested to work. That option is little more risky. In any case, one would not expect a beginner or child to be in a back tracking situation with no experience to do that well, and of course they do not. That is the reality of the situation of many people getting lost. Like it or not it happens all the time. It is surprising to me the reaction I get from my posts on this board, it is so obvious to me. Back tracking is the most important single skill to teach first. (To those who don't know it)

[DadFly]

When I was 5 (1964), my father started taking my 3 older brothers and I hiking in the mountains of Montana. Dad loved the wild places and low impact techniques. We spent most of our time off trail using map and compass to navigate through the wilderness areas around Missoula. By the time I was 8 I could read a topo map like looking at an area from the top of a peak. Why would anyone NOT take one with a compass? You can use a compass to maintain a course through dense timber and dark nights. If you have to bend this way or that now and then, no big deal. We headed for highways or rivers or some other easy to hit target. We often covered 40 or 50 miles in a few days. Those were grand adventures! My college age daughters can read a map to save themselves now. Their first trip with me was at 3 and 5. Their generation is just as capable and wonderful as any other generation. I don't know if they ever use a gps or not. I doubt it. I have in the past but now mostly use my iPhone app 'Gaia GPS' with a topo map and compass somewhere in my pack as backup. It is too easy and amazing so most purists would not approve but it leaves no trace and no doubt. What it diminishes in the realm of adventurous route finding, it makes up for in directness and speed to stupendous places. Often to places I have never been. In my years with Seattle Mountain Rescue the most common reason for our missions was lack of a flashlight. Add to that, inadequate clothing and off we go on a mission. Second would be couch potatoes twisting an ankle or knee after only planning on getting to the top because the down part is "so easy". Again, throw in inadequate clothing etc. Basic skills are taught through so many venues it is irresponsible to not recommend them. Internet, REI, Mountaineers, WAC, BushWhackers, Meetup groups and this wonderful site where ANYONE can post whatever they believe and crowd sourcing will balance it out. In the last few years we have seen a huge spike in the number of people getting out. If all of them refuse to practice low impact techniques the I90 corridor will be noticeably denuded and or color taped in a decade. Same with Highway 2 and 20. It is not elitist to teach and share low impact techniques and the skills to be safe and navigate effectively in the outdoors. It is common decency. We do not own this world. We are borrowing it from our children.

[contour5]

[WaState]

Ok, To teach someone back tracking does not mean not to teach other skills. It is commendable to have and teach good map and compass skills. Although the cascades are more like a dense jungle and traveling with a compass and holding a bearing would be a special skill in many places. Not impossible, but very difficult as you often need to go with all fours. Quarter mile an hour can be the pace in extremely bad areas. I guess to be more clear, it seems that back tracking by any means other than marking the land and trees is acceptable practice, right ? So if to teach back tracking, why not teach all the marking, blazing skills and at the same time to indicate to never use it unless absolutely needed. Is that acceptable? That is what most people already do in reality, few use the marking skills, few know them except flagging and cairns. The hoards coming out into the wilds will only increase into the future, trails of today in the far future are likely to be wide muddy lanes or rocky dusty foot path wide roads, pounded to death. Even so, most people will stay on the paths, few will stray far. Many people have the instinctive ability of back tracking, one can gain that skill while out using the map and compass over time. Such a person would hop onto a small forest trail and go out and back track without much concern and not carry map and compass. To say that back tracking is first is not to say the rest is not important and to follow soon after. I suspect many parents start teaching their children back tracking skills when they are just big enough to move around well, no matter if either adult and child realize it or not. However, kids in mostly urban areas are less likely to get that sort of experience when young. Why back tracking first and foremost? Anyone can do it with nothing else, it is always with you, you can't leave it at home. The kind of navigation skill a group of kids can use when they impromptu jump on a path in the cascades and take off hiking. We all know kids even adults do such things no matter what, having good back tracking skills or not.

[Bernardo]

WaState, thanks for sharing your further thoughts on backtracking. We've reached some common ground in agreeing that marking techniques should only be used in unusual circumstances, if at all, and that non-obtrusive skills are highly preferred. We also agree that if marking tape must be used, let it be biodegradable. I've tried to envision what exactly you are advocating. I think we share the goal that we don't want people, especially young people, to get lost in the woods. Your point seems to be that if everyone knew about backtracking, less people would get lost. Let's assume that anyone who takes a map reading class doesn't get lost. I think that's a fair assumption for our purposes which we can debate later if you wish. Anyone who can't get lost doesn't need backtracking training. So the target audience for backtracking training are the kids and folks who won't or can't take a map reading class. By their nature, this group is not that interested in learning about navigation. How do you propose to teach them about backtracking when they are not interested in learning? Looking at this from a diferent perspective, if we had an hour to train someone to walk 5 miles in the woods to a lake and back, would you rather spend the time talking about backtracking or teaching them how to use a map and compass. I would be much, much more confident of their survival if I spent the 60 minutes talking about terrain features, topo maps, and the use of a compass to walk in a straight line in a given direction. In such a session I'd also mention for one or two minutes to pay attention for landmarks and to look at the terrain to make finding the way back easier. To sum up, those that are willing to learn, should learn all the skills, and those not really willing to learn, well they aren't going to learn. Backtracking is actually harder than following an arrow on a compass and is more of an advanced skill.

[Blue Dome]

Back tracking is useful like a slide rule is useful—if that’s all you got, use it (without damaging anything in the environment or leaving any litter). Might even be kind of fun. For serious work get a map, compass, GPS, and the knowledge to use them.

[Kim Brown]

[Blue Dome]

[Brian Curtis]

It is really interesting to read these various posts about navigation. I feel like I take a slightly different approach because I think there is way too much emphasis on following compass bearings in our mountains. WaState mentioned that it would take a special skill in many places to follow a bearing in a straight line and that is true. And that is one of the reasons I virtually never bother following a compass bearing. To me, navigation is largely the art of following handrails. Our mountains have a lot of topography and that gives us a lot of handrails to follow, even in the deep brush or dark woods. Given a handrail and an altimeter it is easy to always know where you are on the map, even with little visibility. Basically, following terrain is far more useful around here then following a compass bearing. This is emphatically not true in other regions where the opposite may be true. Similarly, I don't really think about my return trip as backtracking. I think about it more as navigating back. In other words, getting back to where you started isn't so much trying to follow your path back as it is following the terrain back and I think it is important to remember that you still need to navigate and not just follow your path back. Of course you want to give yourself an advantage on the return trip so you need to frequently look back and make note of what it looks like. But you only really need to remember the important points between handrails to find your way back. By using terrain this way you only really need to keep a few important points in mind. I guess what I'm saying here is that I see backtracking as an integral part of general navigation which includes multiple skills that allow you to backtrack successfully. Ultimately the most important thing when you go out is to get back but I've never considered that a separate skill from all the skills you need to safely navigate in the mountains. As for teaching marking skills for backtracking, it isn't clear to me why those particular skills are amongst the most important to teach to a child or newbie. What are the circumstances where they would be necessary to use?