Forum Index > Trail Talk > Shooting guns at trailhead in state park
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uww
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uww
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PostMon Apr 16, 2018 11:43 am 
treeswarper wrote:
You "imagine". That's not good enough. Deciding via internet isn't either.
The appropriate WAC was already posted in this thread here on the internet and it's clearly prohibited. No lawyer on earth is going to be able to argue that a trailhead is not "within, from or along a trail" or that a trailhead or boat launch was specifically designed for target shooting. Perhaps those target shooters should have met with their county sheriff before proceeding to do something so irresponsible.

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hbb
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PostMon Apr 16, 2018 12:46 pm 
UWW wrote:
The appropriate WAC was already posted in this thread here on the internet and it's clearly prohibited. No lawyer on earth is going to be able to argue that a trailhead is not "within, from or along a trail" or that a trailhead or boat launch was specifically designed for target shooting.
Meh. I would argue that the cited regulation, WAC 332-52-145, is clearly inapplicable. As explained in WAC 332-52-002, the purpose of Chapter 332-52 is to "set standards for public use on lands managed by the department of natural resources (DNR)." The controlling regulation is actually WAC 220-500-140, which sets forth the standards applicable to firearms usage on lands managed by WDFW. Absent posted notice or close proximity to a campground, target shooting is generally permitted.

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Randito
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PostMon Apr 16, 2018 6:27 pm 
The cited RCW applies to "target shooting" not hunting and isn't specific to certain types of public lands. A number of FS roads on the west side along I-90 used to be heavily used for target shooting -- until there were enough complaints that a concerted effort was made to post signs clearly stating that target shooting was illegal and subject to heavy fines. The first sets of signs were of course destroyed by using them as targets, but repeated replacements and some actual enforcement has made places like Hansen Creek quiet places to hike. Target shooters are probably getting frustrated by areas where they used to be able to shoot coming under scrutiny and enforcement. I lack empathy for their plight however as one group of shooters consumes a vast amount land as the sound of gunfire permeates an entire drainage and unneveres any other users in the area.

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jm31828
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PostTue Apr 17, 2018 6:20 am 
RandyHiker wrote:
I lack empathy for their plight however as one group of shooters consumes a vast amount land as the sound of gunfire permeates an entire drainage and unneveres any other users in the area.
I agree with you. In this instance, these guys were standing right by the trail shooting- even though they were not shooting towards the trail, there is so much risk in case anyone goes off trail- and the very loud sound each gun shot makes was disturbing everyone all along that trail. One or two people should not feel they have the right to do something in a spot that affects so many others. Especially in this particular location- there are so many other desolate areas they could have gone just down the road to shoot targets- it boggled my mind why they had to be right at the trail head, of all places!

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xrp
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PostTue Apr 17, 2018 7:10 am 
cascadeclimber wrote:
treeswarper wrote:
We had an annoying, but legal similar experience yesterday. We were bike riding and running our dogs and had to go by a shooter. I thought my demon dog would be gun shy but she ran up and started barking at the guy! We rode on by and he did not even pause in his shooting, which I thought was rude, but not illegal.
As someone who has been bitten, chased, growled at, tripped, and otherwise threatened more times than I can count by people's "running" dogs in the last year, the hypocrisy of this upset is stark.
That’s what I was thinking. Naturally, treeswarper was running his dogs with them leashed with leashes no more than 8 feet long, per WA State Park requirements.

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DadFly
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PostTue Apr 17, 2018 9:56 am 
I have had bullets whizzing past me twice in WA. Once at Banks lake when a couple of drunks were shooting wildly in the dark. Once up McClellan Butte upper trail when people were shooting up the hill from the road. Growing up in Montana we had lots of guns and lot of space. We also had a four week course on hunters safety complete with pictures of people who had been accidentally shot. As our population explodes we need more common sense education.

"May you live in interesting times"
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SwitchbackFisher
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PostTue Apr 17, 2018 10:40 pm 
jm31828 wrote:
RandyHiker wrote:
I lack empathy for their plight however as one group of shooters consumes a vast amount land as the sound of gunfire permeates an entire drainage and unneveres any other users in the area.
I agree with you. In this instance, these guys were standing right by the trail shooting- even though they were not shooting towards the trail, there is so much risk in case anyone goes off trail- and the very loud sound each gun shot makes was disturbing everyone all along that trail. One or two people should not feel they have the right to do something in a spot that affects so many others. Especially in this particular location- there are so many other desolate areas they could have gone just down the road to shoot targets- it boggled my mind why they had to be right at the trail head, of all places!
As always I take a description with a grain of salt as I have heard people complain about people shooting across a road on a trail when I just drove by and it was not on the road shooting into the side of a hill very safely. I am not willing to persecute anyone on heresay. Especially when the OP was not even aware that they were not in a state park. Also regardless of your lack of empathy as long as they are being legal they have as much right to recreate as you and I. I have things that drive me crazy to and one is the new trend of those stupid drones buzzing along trails. But again if it's legal it's in their right to drive me crazy and I respect that.

I may not be the smartest, I may not be the strongest, but I don't want to be. I only want to be the best I can be.
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Pahoehoe
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PostTue Apr 17, 2018 11:46 pm 
burck17 wrote:
As always I take a description with a grain of salt as I have heard people complain about people shooting across a road on a trail when I just drove by and it was not on the road shooting into the side of a hill very safely. I am not willing to persecute anyone on heresay. Especially when the OP was not even aware that they were not in a state park.
Since the shooters aren't being identified, isn't this a question of where it is and isn't legal to shoot a gun rather than "persecution"? Sounds illegal to me based on the descriptions provided... I wish it was illegal to target shoot on all public land and any private land where strsy bullets could enter another's property... ie target shoot at a shooting range, not a park or trail or anywhere else public. It's too dangerous and destructive not to mention loud and it makes many people feel unsafe.

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jm31828
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PostWed Apr 18, 2018 5:58 am 
burck17 wrote:
As always I take a description with a grain of salt as I have heard people complain about people shooting across a road on a trail when I just drove by and it was not on the road shooting into the side of a hill very safely. I am not willing to persecute anyone on heresay. Especially when the OP was not even aware that they were not in a state park. Also regardless of your lack of empathy as long as they are being legal they have as much right to recreate as you and I. I have things that drive me crazy to and one is the new trend of those stupid drones buzzing along trails. But again if it's legal it's in their right to drive me crazy and I respect that.
Take this with a grain of salt? I was there, my wife was there, others on the trail were even commenting on it to us as we were walking the trail- I know what I saw. The guys had their equipment laid out literally right next to the trail head- I walked probably a foot or two from the cases of ammo they had sitting on the ground, and that is the spot they were shooting from. There is no hearsay, there is no confusion here except for my thinking that the "Discover Pass Required" sign at the trail head (which they were standing next to when shooting) meant that it was state park land. That bit is irrelevant, though, given the danger posed to everyone there when people are shooting rifles in that location.

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thunderhead
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PostWed Apr 18, 2018 8:14 am 
Shooting a rifle is not necessarily dangerous.

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jm31828
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PostWed Apr 18, 2018 8:22 am 
True in many circumstances, but it is when being done within feet of crowds of people. Even though they were not shooting towards the trail, as I said it was so close to the trail that there was just too much risk of someone wandering off trail and in the line of fire, so to speak. People shouldn't have to worry about that risk when at a hiking trail.

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Schroder
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PostWed Apr 18, 2018 8:26 am 
jm31828 wrote:
right next to the trail head
Were you at the parking area where the pit toilets are (The Feathers)?

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jm31828
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PostWed Apr 18, 2018 8:54 am 
Schroder wrote:
Were you at the parking area where the pit toilets are (The Feathers)?
No, this was at the parking area by the white gate maybe a half mile or so further down the road from The Feathers- the one at the trail head that goes out onto the Coulee floor to the waterfall.

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MtnGoat
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PostWed Apr 18, 2018 9:45 am 
Interesting to see so many descriptions of feelings and un-nervings, which are the responsibility of the feeler. There's a vast difference between feeling unsafe and being unsafe, and there is no right to feel safe nor should there be. It's a feeling, not an objective fact. I think there's a place for edjumacating.... on both sides. After all, 'consuming' a 'vast amount of land' in terms of wanting a condition applied for your recreation, also applies if you want users to *stop* doing something on that vast amount of land.

Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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jm31828
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PostWed Apr 18, 2018 9:50 am 
MtnGoat wrote:
Interesting to see so many descriptions of feelings and un-nervings, which are the responsibility of the feeler. There's a vast difference between feeling unsafe and being unsafe, and there is no right to feel safe nor should there be. It's a feeling, not an objective fact. I think there's a place for edjumacating.... on both sides. After all, 'consuming' a 'vast amount of land' in terms of wanting a condition applied for your recreation, also applies if you want users to *stop* doing something on that vast amount of land.
I strongly disagree with this statement. If someone is there using a weapon that has the potential to kill- there is no middle ground, if something went wrong and a hiker got hit, they would likely die- not just an "oops"- so people had a very valid reason to be concerned. What if someone's kid went running off trail in the line of fire, and the guys doing the shooting didn't notice and hit and killed the kid? Is that the fault of the parent who was feeling unnerved beforehand? Why should that risk even exist at a busy hiking area? Why can't something dangerous like this be done further down the road, in the desolate area where there are no hiking trails? That is the responsibility of the person doing the shooting.

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