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Kim Brown
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Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Posts: 6899 | TRs | Pics
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I never saw the twerk – not even interested enough to google a youtube of it, nor have I read 50 Shades of Grey. But a lot of women have, and made it a money maker for the author, publisher, and the movies.
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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Ski
><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 12832 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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 Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:15 am |
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"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."
- H.L. Mencken
==
You don't need to Google it - if you have enough "Yahoo" accounts, sooner or later that kind of stuff will be in your face whether you want it or not.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Kim Brown
Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Posts: 6899 | TRs | Pics
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Thanks for the response, folks!| Windstorm wrote: | | The Mountaineers mentioned the survey results in a recent blog post.
https://www.mountaineers.org/blog/a-safe-and-respectful-culture
I've been following the survey results but generally staying out of the discussion. I'm not a climber and also haven't experienced harassment in the outdoors. It's been a bit depressing to realize that it's something I may have to watch out for if I do get into climbing. |
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 11277 | TRs | Pics
Location: Don't move here |
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:43 pm |
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From my actual experience at work.
In the early 1980s, I went with all guys on a fire crew to a different area. They got showers, I had to wash off in a sink the best I could. "Fire Camp" was in an armory.
Went to SoCal for Thanksgiving fires. Shower time for women was either 12 noon or midnight. There were enough of us on crews to stage a protest and we got times that were feasible for us crew people.
Late 80s shower protest again. There are two shower trucks in camp. There are the most women on fire crews that I've ever seen, maybe 50%. We get the three showers at the end of a truck. We have to wait in line for some time whilst the men hop in and out and are able to go take care of eating and other stuff. I go and threaten an EEO action. Times are then rotated so we get all of one truck, but later, while we are showering, an angry guy storms in and starts yelling at us.
I'm protective of the progress that has been made. It has been a fight, and tiring. Some guys get it, some don't. Sometimes I would get in crew rigs when it was raining to talk over issues on timber sales with the loggers. I noticed that the naked women pictures that were taped up in their pickups disappeared. I hadn't said anything, the pictures just disappeared. I just wondered to myself what they were for? Amusement during the commute?  An affirmation of being manly men?
Progress has been made, but there is obviously a lot of teaching to do and more change. I think I've done my part, but we can't lose it. Right now is a scary time.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Kim Brown
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Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Posts: 6899 | TRs | Pics
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| fourteen410 wrote: | | A gift?
Puke. |
As I predicted, my choice of words are either wrong, or misunderstood. Thanks for your succinct feedback. I mean that by listening, we can address the wrongs where they start, and affect change.
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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cambajamba
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Joined: 05 Nov 2011
Posts: 339 | TRs | Pics
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| Kim Brown wrote: | | Does anyone really think Tom is misogynist? |
I think you can be one without knowing it or trying to be. It's called bias, a lot of times we don't realize it's happening, and it can be challenging to change our behaviors. I agree with other posters that the moderation is harsher on left leaning, female voices than any other implied ideology.
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cambajamba
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Joined: 05 Nov 2011
Posts: 339 | TRs | Pics
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| fourteen410 wrote: | | it's pretty appalling to see this defended by the moderators. |
Not the first appalling thing I've seen defended by our moderators.
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cambajamba
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Joined: 05 Nov 2011
Posts: 339 | TRs | Pics
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| Tom wrote: | | You don't get to post insults just because you don't like an opinion. |
Hack evolutionary psychology and other paper thin BS spouted by hate groups does not constitute an opinion. Pretending it does is a favored tactic of the willfully ignorant.
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cambajamba
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Joined: 05 Nov 2011
Posts: 339 | TRs | Pics
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| MtnGoat wrote: | | You're fine with opposing opinions...until you're not. |
I'm fine with opposing and censoring complete and total fabrications. Opinions do not carry argumentative weight. They are not vetted or verified.
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DIYSteve
seeking hygge
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 12655 | TRs | Pics
Location: here now |
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DIYSteve
seeking hygge
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Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:20 pm |
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| fourteen410 wrote: | | But I am not ok with derogatory remarks toward women and frankly, it's pretty appalling to see this defended by the moderators. |
Defending one's right to stay absurdly stupid things is not the same as defending the substance of the absurdly stupid statement.
Kim is spot on. Wastral's whacky cringeworthy posts present an opportunity: They expose us to ignorant and antiquated views held by millions of Americans. The first step in addressing any problem is to identify and understand the nature and scope of the problem, and that cannot happen if you muzzle those who do not agree with you. In this case, the problem is the male chauvinistic paradigm which, fortunately, is on a trend of gradual erosion. As with all progress in matters of civil rights, progress invites backlash, and thus the erosion curve is more of a roller coaster than a gentle glide path. As MLK said, "the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice."
I am sad to see radka leave the forum. She contributed much to the NWHiker community. Maybe she will reconsider and rejoin the community. That would be a good thing.
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cambajamba
Member
Joined: 05 Nov 2011
Posts: 339 | TRs | Pics
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| DIYSteve wrote: | | The first step in addressing any problem is to identify and understand the nature and scope of the problem, and that cannot happen if you muzzle those who do not agree with you. |
The issue with this tactic is that we're not all even tempered and smart people just waiting for an opportunity to change. The problem with allowing all opinions an equal platform is that many, MANY people cannot determine for themselves fact from fiction. They may hear something that they can relate to or that plays to their own biases and insecurities and, even though it is totally false and just someone's ridiculous comment, it gets amplified and shared and rebroadcast until you start hearing this drivel come out of people who should know better.
Then that damaging, hurtful, and dangerous opinion becomes fact for a great many people. This is the concern.
Let's put this in HIKING TERMS so I don't get banned.
1) WTA allows users to post their own trip reports.
2) Someone with the opinion that a certain summit constitutes a hike instead of a climb posts a trip report saying "conditions great, head up there!"
3) Someone else, with a lifetime of experience sees this "opinion" and thinks, wow, that's dangerous, they shouldn't have said that, it's clearly a climb. It's rated. It's in climbing books. Sure, this person might hold the opinion that it's a hike, not a climb, but that's pretty clearly incorrect.
4) Post stays up.
5) Somebody dies.
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DIYSteve
seeking hygge
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 12655 | TRs | Pics
Location: here now |
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DIYSteve
seeking hygge
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Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:46 pm |
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I am wholly unpersuaded by your championing of censorship. Muzzling dissenters creates bubbles. People who live in bubbles cannot see problems outside their bubbles. Censorship also creates resentment and doubling down on stupid views. History teaches over and over that the best weapon against ignorant speech is thoughtful and informed speech.
And do you actually fear that someone on reading this forum might misconstrue wastral's whacky opinions as fact? 
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neek
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Joined: 12 Sep 2011
Posts: 2337 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle, WA |
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neek
Member
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Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:53 pm |
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| DIYSteve wrote: | | I am sad to see radka leave the forum. She contributed much to the NWHiker community. Maybe she will reconsider and rejoin the community. That would be a good thing. |
+1. The best way to encourage that would be to turn this into a civil and respectful conversation, which some have been admirably trying to do. It's originally her topic after all.
| DIYSteve wrote: | | I am wholly unpersuaded by your championing of censorship. |
I'm quite certain you're not alone. (Edit: removed a misunderstanding)
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Pahoehoe
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Joined: 12 Oct 2017
Posts: 563 | TRs | Pics
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Pahoehoe
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Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:01 pm |
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| Ski wrote: | | A shouting match directed solely at men is going to result in being ignored. Men will do the same thing as when their girlfriends or wives start yammering at them: we'll go out into the garage or shop or out into the woods and simply tune you out. Simple. |
This is dismissive.
Its disrespectful.
If your partner is "yammering" at you thats an issue between you and your partner.
Maybe you need to listen and address the issue.
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Tom
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Joined: 15 Dec 2001
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Tom
Admin
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Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:13 pm |
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Wastral hasn't been censored. It's his choice to not have participated further in this thread. My issue had more to do with elements in his delivery than his actual opinions. I actually have to commend him for staying out of it. Maybe he is a troll and just sitting back and enjoying all of this only to come back and repeat. It's not as if he just signed up here and started trolling away so I'll give some benefit of the doubt. Like I said, people either demonstrate they can contribute here in a sincere, respectful, value-added and non antagonizing way or they demonstrate otherwise.
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