Forum Index > Stewardship > Threat to clearcut DeLeo Wall
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nordique
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PostMon Apr 30, 2018 2:05 pm 
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Would you believe that the De Leo Wall area on Cougar Mt is up for logging?  More information here:

https://www.savedeleowall.org/

Now is the time to work to stop this destruction!
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treeswarper
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PostTue May 01, 2018 7:00 am 
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If you keep on "saving" everything from evil logging, where will the boards you use for construction come from?

Also, very few clearcuts are broadcast burned anymore so the picture of smoldering stumps is kind of inaccurate.

Maybe they'll sell it to a developer who will save it by constructing homes on it.  Then it won't be logged.

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Naches Hiker
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PostTue May 01, 2018 8:23 am 
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You better go up and hug those trees one last time!

Better not have a house built out of wood!

Sad the liberals care more about the fish and animals then jobs. Keep on paying for the loggers and planters unemployment! I'm sure they appreciate it.

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Naches Hiker
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PostTue May 01, 2018 8:32 am 
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treeswarper wrote:
Maybe they'll sell it to a developer who will save it by constructing homes on it.  Then it won't be logged.

People will still have something to complain about. Bird habitat and dispersal will be skewed. Can't do that.

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Mizzle
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PostTue May 01, 2018 8:58 am 
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Hello! I'm new here, both to the forum and to the PNW (I'm from Alaska, just moved south as I am now a cyborg with a few titanium parts that don't play well with nine months of subzero temps). I figured this is as good a thread as any to say hello. I'm a liberal who prefers animals and fish (and even trees!) to the idea of jobs at all costs.  Clearcutting and constant resource extraction to feed the consumerist beast is a bummer. We could all use less stuff, recycle and reuse, have fewer children, etc. to preserve some trees and make the Lorax smile.
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PostTue May 01, 2018 9:58 am 
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Hey Mizzle, welcome to the jungle!
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RandyHiker
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PostTue May 01, 2018 10:19 am 
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I wonder if the private property owner is really keen on harvesting the timber or if this a "greemail" operation like the recent land purchase near Stevens Pass when the land owner threatened to close off access to the PCT.
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Schroder
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PostTue May 01, 2018 10:20 am 
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Treeswarper and Naches Hiker have to chime in again against "the liberals" on an area they know nothing about.

If you two are slightly interested, this is essentially a suburban park with housing developments abutting it on all sides.  Clearcutting here is a sensitive issue to all that use it.  Just maybe there's some timber somewhere else.
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Mizzle
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PostTue May 01, 2018 10:27 am 
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cambajamba wrote:
Hey Mizzle, welcome to the jungle!

Thank you! biggrin.gif
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treeswarper
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PostTue May 01, 2018 1:23 pm 
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Schroder wrote:
Treeswarper and Naches Hiker have to chime in again against "the liberals" on an area they know nothing about.

If you two are slightly interested, this is essentially a suburban park with housing developments abutting it on all sides.  Clearcutting here is a sensitive issue to all that use it.  Just maybe there's some timber somewhere else.

Where did I mention liberal.  Please point it out.

Housing developments are clearcuts and even worse, true deforestation. They suck up resources and tax dollars when nonexistent infrastructure must be built because little or no planning took place before construction.  A bunch of hypocritical NIMBYs move in.  The same thing happens when they buy a new house next to a farm.  Suddenly, the farm must be regulated even though it was there before the development.

Where will you get boards for projects from after all trees "have been saved"?  I haven't even stated an opinion.  I am wondering where our lumber will come from.  I guess it will magically appear on store shelves like our food does.

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JPH
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PostTue May 01, 2018 2:52 pm 
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Nobody is saying that we need to save all the trees or that logging is inherently evil.  Just that this particular area is used by the entire Seattle region for outdoor recreation and there are likely more appropriate areas to log...
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RodF
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PostTue May 01, 2018 3:10 pm 
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JPH wrote:
Just that this particular area is used by the entire Seattle region for outdoor recreation

Schroder wrote:
this is essentially a suburban park with housing developments abutting it on all sides.  Clearcutting here is a sensitive issue to all that use it.

Suggest that King County Parks purchase this private land and add it to their adjacent Cougar Mountain Regional Wildland Park.  Or that a land trust purchase the logging and development rights and hold them in trust.

That's the constructive cooperative way to provide a public benefit.  Not taking private land by monkey-wrenching their right to harvest it to cpver their last 40 years of property taxes.

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nickmtn
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PostTue May 01, 2018 3:14 pm 
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I don't think there is anything wrong with balancing the recreational, habitat, and economic interests in this property. Maybe this is old fashioned but I pretty much trust our current environment review procedures to get it close to right.

I think we could also acknowledge that living in a crowded democracy with a hybrid economy is complicated! At least we have the freedom to disagree and established processes for working out our differences, much better than the alternatives.
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treeswarper
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PostWed May 02, 2018 7:32 am 
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JPH wrote:
Nobody is saying that we need to save all the trees or that logging is inherently evil.  Just that this particular area is used by the entire Seattle region for outdoor recreation and there are likely more appropriate areas to log...

And another example--don't get upset, I'm just pointing out something, why Seattle people are not well liked outside of their area.

Even though Chelan or is it Kittitas County advertises that they are a playground, folks still have to make a living and we are not pleased to only be considered as a place for your recreation.  Maybe partly recreation, but we hope to have better than minimum wage paying employment in a few places.

I know I often feel that is an insult, that your play is more important than my work.  I'm not just referring to "logging" either.  Read the thread about the dam in the stewardship forum.  Some folks suggest that irrigation is not acceptable and we don't need it.  Tell that to the thousands of people who work in orchards and orchard related fields. 

I used to hear that we might be in trouble when people were two generations from working on a farm or outdoors-- That they would not think about where the food that they eonsume came from.  Now I believe the originator of that statement was very wise.

There was a feel good article in Crosscut, but they did not delve very deeply into the urban vs rural divide.

I don't have time to count how many Save _____ From Logging threads there are.  Note that nobody has any suggestions on how to replace the "saved" and soon to be trashed by litter areas.  Remember, there is a market for lumber and lumber comes from trees.  Until you find a viable substitute for wood, we will need to cut trees.

Tree farms are a long term commitment.  It is a risky investment.  I know of folks who choose to grow trees "for logging" rather than subdividing the land into small parcels for houses.  Which use is worse for the ecosystem, entering, cutting and replanting a timber stand or permanently paving roads, putting in septic systems, razing it and building houses?
When a new neighborhood appears where a tree farm was, does that make the adjacent land unharvestable?

Nobody is looking at that elephant in the room.

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JPH
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PostWed May 02, 2018 9:32 am 
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I'm not anti logging, farming, irrigation, ranching, oil drilling or anything else.  I fully understand where food and lumber comes from.  But I'm also not a fan of willy nilly clear cutting just because there's trees.  How about the logging companies that clear cut, replant and never go back to manage the land so it's just a bunch of choked out, undersized trees fighting for space?

Either way, it looks like this property is owned by a builder, so I'm going to guess they aren't in it for the long term commitment of a tree farm....

On a side note, your understanding of the environmental development regulations appear to be as thin as your perception of everyone else's understanding of farming and logging.

treeswarper wrote:
Tree farms are a long term commitment.  It is a risky investment.  I know of folks who choose to grow trees "for logging" rather than subdividing the land into small parcels for houses.  Which use is worse for the ecosystem, entering, cutting and replanting a timber stand or permanently paving roads, putting in septic systems, razing it and building houses? When a new neighborhood appears where a tree farm was, does that make the adjacent land unharvestable?
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