[fairweather friend]

(Note: this thread really belongs in the "Gear" forum, but I need all the help I can get, which means more readers.) Desperately Needed: An older DVD version of Garmin TOPO US 24K, Mountain North. Background: I just spent 54 minutes on the phone with a Garmin customer support rep. Long story short, my Garmin GPS failed me once again when I needed it most (3rd time now, and it's always something different.) This time I was in Idaho on a 9-day, 200 mile kayak self-support trip down Marsh Creek, the Middle Fork Salmon, and the Main Salmon. High water, big adventure, yadda, yadda. On Day 1, everything worked perfectly. The device showed the 3rd party map from NW TOPO I had loaded on the SD card, as well as the waypoints (GPX files) I had loaded onto the device's internal memory. Yippee! The next day, I had to change the batteries and when I did so, the map AND the waypoints were gone when I powered up the device. I had encountered a similar problem once before (the big fail of 2017), so I knew that the solution was to pull out the batteries, reseat the SD card, and reboot the device. Afterwards, the NW TOPO map reappeared on the screen, but NOT the waypoints! Grrr! For the next 8 days, the waypoints remained missing, but the map was still there. (And, yes, I had to change batteries four or five times during this period.) On the final day of my trip, I was inserting used batteries trying to find a pair that still had juice when Voila!, the waypoints reappeared again, as if by magic. Garmin was baffled by this experience but, of course, they pointed to the NW TOPO map as the culprit. (According to the rep, the 3rd party map (which is stored on the SD card) somehow made the device not "see" waypoints which were stored on the device's own internal memory.) Anyhow, I simply CANNOT have this happen to me again!!! So here is what I need: If you have the older DVD version of Garmin TOPO US 24K, Mountain North, please mail it to me so I can download it onto my computer and then load it onto the GPS. The newer Garmin SD version of their Idaho maps won't work because those files can't be downloaded. Of course, I will mail your DVD back to you as soon as I've downloaded it. Please PM me if you can help a brother out. Thx!

[Cyclopath]

I don't have the DVD but this may be useful? https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/05/download-garmin-705800810.html

[mb]

Garmins are notoriously flakey. Even I think with their own 'supported' data. Bring a backup. A paper map? A cell phone. To save money, find someone's old phone which they've upgraded. Probably can find a waterproof one. Say a Moto G3. (Which you can buy new-old-stock for $100? Weird.). Install osmand or similar w/maps and gpx points.

[fairweather friend]

Re: Cyclopath's comment. I need to use Garmin's own maps in order to prove this problem exists. If it happens again with Garmin's own maps, then clearly the problem is due to a software glitch in the device and Garmin will have to own up. Until then, they will continue to blame third party maps, no matter how good they are. Re: mb's comment: Yes, of course, I had a paper map with me and that's what I used to get down the remaining 184 miles of river. But when you're traveling at 10 mph and most of the landmarks you hope to see are underwater, and taking your hands off the paddle means going into nasty swirlies or worse, then using a paper map becomes problematic. I learned to navigate by my clock instead, "Okay. In about 45 minutes, we should see a creek on the right and a high-water camp on the left. If you see that, then whistle for a stop because there's a Class V rapid about a mile below and we'll be committed to running it six minutes later." That's what I'm talking about.

[robertjoy]

I have been yearning for the same DVD. There is one on Ebay right now for $45.68 plus $2.69 shipping. If I buy it, are you interested in buying it from me? Say $30, and you keep it? Or $20, and you mail it back?

[fairweather friend]

robertjoy, that is not an unreasonable offer. Please give me another day or two to decide as I just put the word out on various forums and the replies are trickling in. No surprise, but the first comment is always: "Learn to read a map!" Jesus, folks. It takes just as much skill to read & use a map on a GPS as it takes to read and use a paper map, probably more since you also have to be able to understand and troubleshoot tech.

[robertjoy]

It seems I was mistaken, and the offer was NOT for the DVD....

[AlpineRose]

John Wesley Powell must be rolling over in his grave. Because he's laughing so hard.

[ejain]

Flaky SD card?

[mike]

Why not copy the nwtopo and the gpx to the internal memory of the unit? Use windoze NOT basecamp.

[huron]

Garmin My GPS died under warranty but they would not authorize me to re-install the software I bought for it on the replacement. This happened several times. That's how they got on my never-another-dollar list along with Comcast/Xfinity. Don't buy Garmin. Sorry for this distraction but I am committed to walking a mile out of my way to trash them at any opportunity after they burned me so bad.

[fairweather friend]

Replies... 1) Powell is probably the last explorer you'd want to reference to make snark about the difficulties of traveling unknown rivers. Have you never read about what happened at Separation Canyon? Those three men would not have left the party on foot (and perished) had they known how close they were to the end of the canyon, but they figured that anything was better than facing another blind bend in the river with another formidable rapid waiting. If I had to guess, I'd say Powell would have loved to have used a GPS during his journey... and he'd still be the first person to travel those waters. 2) The flakey SD card idea is certainly plausible. I might swap out the card in my phone with the card in my GPS and see if it makes any difference. 3) Agreed. Garmin truly sucks! I have long imagined what products would be available if Google or Apple bought the company. Instead, Garmin bought DeLorme. I sure hope InReach survives their management.

[Malachai Constant]

Garmin has always had flaky proprietary software, probably because few good software people are willing to relocate to Kansas. And then they are murdered by redneckswho cannot tell the difference between Indians from Hyberdad and mooslems. I cried when they bought Delorme. Luckily now there are many alternatives. I just use Ghia and it suits my purposes.

[fairweather friend]

I just had another idea. It wouldn't solve the problem, but it would shed light on where the problem is originating. If this ever happens to me again, (God forbid) I will go into the Main Menu of the GPS and disable the NW Topo Idaho map. Then, I'll shut off the device and reboot. If my waypoints return to view, then the NW Topo map was the problem. If my waypoints are still missing, then my device has some sort of defect independent of the maps.

[mb]

When I said backup, I don't just mean paper--I mean a totally different GPS. Cell phones are cheap, waterproof ones are available. Though capacitive screens don't work as well as resistive screens or button based devices. I've had a variety of problems w/garmins and loaded routes/waypoints, but I also use 3rd party maps--and thus when I need them, I load both on my phone and... well I lost my garmin and never replaced it, so maybe a 2nd phone if I was in a relevant situation. But I know people with problems with the most basic functionality of recording a trip (which you may not care about?) w/o waypoints or maps.