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boot up
Old Not Bold Hiker
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 4745 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bend Oregon |
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boot up
Old Not Bold Hiker
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 Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:37 pm |
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Interesting what happens when we hand over public land to a private concession.
I had both the America the Beautiful pass and the Red Rock pass when I visited West Fork trail near Sedona AZ. BOTH of those should cover that area in the Coconino National Forest. And even the sign on the entrance booth said so.
What it really boils down to is the private concession folks can do whatever they please. Welcome to the future of hiking, if we continue to privatize public lands.
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RodF
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Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 2593 | TRs | Pics
Location: Sequim WA |
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RodF
Member
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Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:52 pm |
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| Hesman wrote: | | I decided to go to Dungeness Spit for a walk on the beach. I only made it as far as the entrance station. I show my valid America the Beautiful Pass and am told by the volunteer that I cannot proceed. I am told I would be arrested and face 6 months in federal prison... |
I was a Dungeness Spit yesterday, and stopped by Refuge HQ to inquire about your encounter, Hes. Volunteer coordinator Dave was already fully aware of it, and very sincerely apologetic. Refuge manager Stephanie also came up to say she's spoken to you on the phone yesterday morning. Both agree this should never have happened. All their volunteers are given a full hour of training on the various passes. The American the Beautiful Pass and and list of others that are accepted are all depicted in the pay kiosk for convenient reference by both visitors and volunteers.
Dungeness NWR manager Stephanie and volunteer coordinator Dave are both very sorry this occurred. They'll talk to all volunteers and make every effort to ensure it never happens again.
Volunteers are there to make your visit more pleasant and informative, to help visitors. This popular refuge with so many visitors simply doesn't have the funding and staffing to function without them.
(Sometimes, visitors may be confused about the bewildering array of passes we have to get. The state Discover Pass, the forest service NW Forest Pass, or annual Olympic NP pass do not include access to US Fish and Wildlife Service sites, such as a Dungeness National Wildlife Refuge. But some visitors present them, assuming they should. Even volunteers can be confused, but they should never be confrontational or act like law enforcement officers!)
"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated. It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated. It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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AlpineRose
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Joined: 08 May 2012
Posts: 1953 | TRs | Pics
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Someone in their 70s could also be in the early stages of dementia.
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Randito
Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 9512 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:41 pm |
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FWIW: I've volunteered at MRNP, I didn't get a lot of training, but I was certainly emphases that I was to be informative and not confrontational. If there were any serious, to move away and call for a LEO on the radio.
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Ski
><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 12824 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:04 pm |
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| Quote: | | "...if "parking" is considered an "expanded amenity"..." |
shouldn't be. Nisqually NWR is managed by the same federal agency (USFWS) and the parking area is inside the entrance gate.
sounds like this volunteer was a little confused or simply didn't know the score.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Ringangleclaw
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Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 1559 | TRs | Pics
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| AlpineRose wrote: | | Someone in their 70s could also be in the early stages of dementia. |
Probably are. A whole generation of burned and drugged out hippies longing for another hit of airplane.
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Ringangleclaw
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Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 1559 | TRs | Pics
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That’s actually a list of where it can be bought
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graywolf
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Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 808 | TRs | Pics
Location: Sequim |
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graywolf
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Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:03 pm |
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I had a similar experience there a number of years ago. The volunteer was being a jerk, saying that my America the Beautiful pass wasn't valid for the Spit, so I called his bluff. Told him to call the LEO and I would wait until he showed up so we could straighten this out. He stammered and said he had full authority to arrest me (total BS - the volunteers have no law enforcement authority and are not armed). I told him unless he called the LEO (whom is a WDFW officer that I had talked with on previous visits), then he was not going to prevent my hiking down to the Spit.
Walked past him, went for a walk to the lighthouse. When I got back to the parking lot he was still there, so I walked up to him, said hi and asked if he had anything else he wanted to say to me.
He wouldn't even make eye contact with me - what an officious little turd.
Haven't seen him there since.
The only easy day was yesterday...
The only easy day was yesterday...
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Ringangleclaw
Member
Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 1559 | TRs | Pics
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| graywolf wrote: | | told him unless he called the LEO (whom is a WDFW officer that I had talked with on previous visits), then he was not going to prevent my hiking down to the Spit |
The WDFW is the LE agency on a federal game refuge?
| graywolf wrote: | | Haven't seen him there since. |
What did you do with the “evidence”?
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graywolf
Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 808 | TRs | Pics
Location: Sequim |
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graywolf
Member
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Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:20 pm |
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| Ringangleclaw wrote: | | graywolf wrote: | | told him unless he called the LEO (whom is a WDFW officer that I had talked with on previous visits), then he was not going to prevent my hiking down to the Spit |
The WDFW is the LE agency on a federal game refuge?
| graywolf wrote: | | Haven't seen him there since. |
What did you do with the “evidence”? |
You're right, he was a federal LEO, not state.
No "evidence", just haven't seen him. He might still be a volunteer there for all I know.
The only easy day was yesterday...
The only easy day was yesterday...
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Ringangleclaw
Member
Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 1559 | TRs | Pics
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| graywolf wrote: | | No "evidence", just haven't seen him. |
Right...
Probably best not to incriminate yourself though
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
Joined: 26 Jul 2009
Posts: 3589 | TRs | Pics
Location: Port Angeles |
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
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Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:09 pm |
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As I said earlier, I always try to be polite and calm while insistent. Being polite and calm goes a long way to resolving disputes and misunderstandings. And it really is possible to be polite and calm while remaining insistent. Hell, it's not even difficult.
Rumi
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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Ringangleclaw
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Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 1559 | TRs | Pics
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| RumiDude wrote: | | And it really is possible to be polite and calm while remaining insistent. Hell, it's not even difficult. |
It's actually possible to be intimidating by remaining calm and polite. Make that old volunteer fill up his depends even faster than normal.
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Ringangleclaw
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Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 1559 | TRs | Pics
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| graywolf wrote: | | Walked past him, went for a walk to the lighthouse. When I got back to the parking lot he was still there, so I walked up to him, said hi and asked if he had anything else he wanted to say to me.
He wouldn't even make eye contact with me - what an officious little turd. |
Did you mention to your friends that "he has to leave here eventually, and they can't protect him forever" loud enough for the old fuddy duddy to hear you?
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graywolf
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Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 808 | TRs | Pics
Location: Sequim |
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graywolf
Member
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Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:20 am |
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| RumiDude wrote: | | As I said earlier, I always try to be polite and calm while insistent. Being polite and calm goes a long way to resolving disputes and misunderstandings. And it really is possible to be polite and calm while remaining insistent. Hell, it's not even difficult.
Rumi |
I never raised my voice during our interaction.
The only easy day was yesterday...
The only easy day was yesterday...
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