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zephyr
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PostMon Mar 27, 2017 6:40 pm 
Who Killed the Iceman? is an article recently published in the New York Times about the forensic analysis being performed on Otzi the Copper Age man who was discovered near the Italian Austrian border by two German tourists in 1991. His body had been exposed as the glacier covering him had retreated. Per Wikipedia "(... the Tyrolean Iceman, and the Hauslabjoch mummy) is a nickname given to the well-preserved natural mummy of a man who lived around 3,300 BCE, more precisely between 3359 and 3105 BCE This should be of interest to us hikers, climbers, skiers and explorers of mountains and alpine environments. Per the NYT article: From examining traces of pollen in his digestive tract, scientists were able to place the date of Ötzi’s death at sometime in late spring or early summer. In his last two days, they found, he consumed three distinct meals and walked from an elevation of about 6,500 feet, down to the valley floor and then up into the mountains again, where he was found at the crime site, 10,500 feet up. They say "crime site" because scientists have been able to determine from his wounds that Otzi had recently gone down to the lower elevation (village perhaps) been cut in a fight, then left fully provisioned and ended up making a dinner in the high country. There he was shot from behind with an arrow. Quote: Half an hour after Ötzi dined, the killer came along and shot him in the back from a distance of almost 100 feet. The arrow went under his left armpit and ripped through a roughly half-inch section of his subclavian artery, a wound that would have been quickly fatal and probably not treatable even in modern times, especially where it happened. By the angle of the wound, he was either shot from below and behind, or he had been bent forward when he was hit from above and behind. After he was initially recovered, there was some dispute between the two countries as to whom Otzi belonged. According to the Wikipedia article, the University of Innsbruck, Austria did the initial research and then the Iceman went to Italy to be housed in South Tyrol Museum of Archaeology in Bolzano, Italy. It's a fascinating story and amazing tribute to years of study and then more recent investigations by a German homicide detective. Photos and map in the article. Maybe there will be a movie soon. wink.gif ~z

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Bootpathguy
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PostMon Mar 27, 2017 8:29 pm 
zephyr wrote:
It's a fascinating story
Indeed it is. I watched this a few months ago. I'm surprised to see it on YouTube, but yet, there it is! PBS NOVA Excellent
Oh! To answer your question in the title thread. I don't know who killed the Iceman, but I do know Bob Marley shot the Sheriff

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PostMon Mar 27, 2017 9:33 pm 
The butler did it, but it wasn't in the library nor was the candelabra used.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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zephyr
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PostMon Mar 27, 2017 9:37 pm 
Bootpathguy wrote:
I watched this a few months ago. I'm surprised to see it on YouTube, but yet, there it is! PBS NOVA Excellent
Thanks for the video BPG. I just finished watching it. It was a bit gruesome at times, but overall very well-produced and written. The drama wasn't too pushy or overwhelming and they pitched the whole story to an intelligent, curious audience. The mountain scenes and occasional re-enactments were well done. Some points that I liked--1) the Paleo-Artist Gary Staab. Now that's an interesting guy. 2) The discussion on tattoos and the ancient tattoo expert from Tennessee. 3) The discussion of the fungi he carried with him, one for fire-starting and one for anti-viral and anti-bacterial properties. Very cool. 4) The DNA investigation leading to farmers from Sardinia and previously the Anatolian peninsula. One more I almost forgot--5) The use of pollen samples to tell that he had been up and down the mountain in his last two days. Very cool. up.gif Thanks for adding to the story to help flesh things out a little bit. I hope you read the NYT article. It's short and adds more to the story of his last couple of days. Like a murder mystery. ~z

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PostTue Mar 28, 2017 11:31 am 
Cool! I'll have to watch this... Fits in well with a book I got last week.. https://www.amazon.com/Bog-Bodies-Uncovered-Solving-Europes/dp/0500051828

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PostFri Mar 31, 2017 11:26 pm 
The museum in Bolzano where he's kept is really cool. The region has great hiking. A great place for European trip with civilized hiking. He clearly was a great hiker.

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PostWed Jun 20, 2018 6:24 pm 
Update https://gizmodo.com/final-days-of-otzi-the-iceman-revealed-through-new-anal-1826982899

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PostFri Jun 22, 2018 4:46 pm 
now that's an interesting link abbreviation, I looked at the link text, and thought whiskey tango foxtrot

Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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zephyr
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PostFri Jun 22, 2018 5:49 pm 
Nice article, BPG. Some great illustrations. A few pull quotes from the text: Previous studies suggested all of Ötzi’s chert—a sedimentary rock that produces sharp edges when flaked, or knapped—came from a single region in Northern Italy known as the Lessini Mountains. But the new analysis suggests the stones in Ötzi’s six tools were imported from at least three different regions in northern Italy, all within 25 to 44 miles (40 to 70 km) from the valley where the Iceman lived. This means that villages were being supplied with chert from different outcrops, and that contacts were maintained over long distances. ... What’s more, Wierer’s comparative analysis of Ötzi’s tools with other Copper Age artifacts revealed the presence of stylistic influences, including both Northern Italian traditions and more distant alpine cultures, including Swiss Horgan culture. ... Wierer and her colleagues also examined the wear and tear on the Iceman’s tools. The distinctive flake patterns show that Ötzi was a right-handed individual, something not known before, and that he wasn’t an expert flintknapper. “The technical skill of flintworking, measurable by the regularity of work, the presence or absence of mistakes, is not excellent but on a medium level,” Wierer told Gizmodo. ... It's amazing what contemporary analysis can tell us about prehistoric artifacts and then the culture they are derived from. ~z

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moonspots
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PostFri Jun 22, 2018 6:54 pm 
MtnGoat wrote:
now that's an interesting link abbreviation, I looked at the link text, and thought whiskey tango foxtrot
Same here. 🤣 Then I realized what information it *really* was trying to convey.

"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
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zephyr
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PostFri Jun 22, 2018 7:11 pm 
More interesting detail from the article. Amazing what you can learn from actually reading things. Some great illustrations too. ~z The tools were of various ages, and as noted, acquired from different regions. Looking at the quality of the edges, Wierer’s team suspects that Ötzi re-sharpened and reshaped some of his tools shortly before he died. He wasn’t working on any of his equipment when he was killed, as all of his tools were found in their respective bags—except the dagger, which was found lying in meltwater next to Ötzi’s mummified body. ... As for Ötzi’s other tools, most of them displayed evidence of extensive use, and many were at the end of their usefulness. His flake, though small, was a practical cutting instrument due to its sharp edges; analysis shows the Iceman used it for cutting soft wood or reeds. Ötzi also had an antler retoucher (also known as a pressure flaker), which he used for flaking chert and for resharpening worn-out tool edges; the antler spike inside this tool was likely made from roe deer antler. This tool was made by inserting an antler spike inside the canal of a stripped branch of lime tree.

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PostFri Jun 22, 2018 8:50 pm 
They're saying the guy died from being shot in the back with an arrow, but they didn't include a drawing or photo of the arrow in the article. Did the shooter retrieve his arrow from Otzi after he fell? The other thing that I was kind of puzzled by was they're saying the last stuff he ate was some sort of dried meat, and some fresh goat meat. There's a timeline drawn on a graph showing when he was at low elevation, when he returned to the high country, and when he was wounded (on his hand) and when he died. There's not a big window of time there. If he was on the run, trying to elude someone who was pursuing him, how did he have time to hunt down that goat?

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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zephyr
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PostSat Jun 23, 2018 7:30 am 
Ski wrote:
The other thing that I was kind of puzzled by was they're saying the last stuff he ate was some sort of dried meat, and some fresh goat meat.
I believe the goat meat was dried--like jerky or bacon. More detail about his last meal can be found in the Wikipedia article noted in the original post. Quote: In 2009, a CAT scan revealed that the stomach had shifted upward to where his lower lung area would normally be. Analysis of the contents revealed the partly digested remains of ibex meat, confirmed by DNA analysis, suggesting he had a meal less than two hours before his death. Wheat grains were also found.[14] It is believed that Ötzi most likely had a few slices of a dried, fatty meat, probably bacon which came from a wild goat in South Tyrol, Italy.[15] Analysis of Ötzi's intestinal contents showed two meals (the last one consumed about eight hours before his death), one of chamois meat, the other of red deer and herb bread. Both were eaten with grain as well as roots and fruits. The grain from both meals was a highly processed einkorn wheat bran,[16] quite possibly eaten in the form of bread. In the proximity of the body, and thus possibly originating from the Iceman's provisions, chaff and grains of einkorn and barley, and seeds of flax and poppy were discovered, as well as kernels of sloes (small plumlike fruits of the blackthorn tree) and various seeds of berries growing in the wild.[17] Hair analysis was used to examine his diet from several months before. Pollen in the first meal showed that it had been consumed in a mid-altitude conifer forest, and other pollens indicated the presence of wheat and legumes, which may have been domesticated crops. Pollen grains of hop-hornbeam were also discovered. The pollen was very well preserved, with the cells inside remaining intact, indicating that it had been fresh (estimated about two hours old) at the time of Ötzi's death, which places the event in the spring, or early summer. Einkorn wheat is harvested in the late summer, and sloes in the autumn; these must have been stored from the previous year.
Ski wrote:
Did the shooter retrieve his arrow from Otzi after he fell?
You might want to go back and reread the Wikipedia article on the cause of death. So much more there. Here's a bit: In 2001 X-rays and a CT scan revealed that Ötzi had an arrowhead lodged in his left shoulder when he died,[60] and a matching small tear on his coat.[61] The discovery of the arrowhead prompted researchers to theorize Ötzi died of blood loss from the wound, which would probably have been fatal even if modern medical techniques had been available.[62] Further research found that the arrow's shaft had been removed before death,... Ötzi's posture in death (frozen body, face down, left arm bent across the chest) could support a theory that before death occurred and rigor mortis set in, the Iceman was turned onto his stomach in the effort to remove the arrow shaft.[65] ~z

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PostSat Jun 23, 2018 8:25 am 
After reading through that "Wikipedia" article, I guess my question above about the arrow might seem a bit stupid. If someone had attempted to remove the arrow, why would they not have taken Otzi's arrows, quiver, and party-finished bow? Moreover, why would they not have taken his copper-headed ax, which would have been a much more valuable trophy? (But then, there's always the possibility that there may have been some sort of taboo about taking stuff from the dead.) In spite of all the scientific stuff, I think some of their "conclusions" are "best guess" stuff. Maybe that's just my own skepticism.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Bernardo
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PostSat Jun 23, 2018 11:10 am 
The Oetzi case is so amazing. Wouldn't be too surprized if they next find a 5000 year old copy of the Tyrolean Gazette with a contemporary account of what happened. His relics tell us that so much was happening in the area, but unfortunately we don't have a lot of other good evidence. My question: was he integrated into a tribe or was he socially isolated? If he was integrated, was he going toward or away from home on his last journey. Looks like he was definitely a hiker who enjoyed a good steep climb.

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