[altersego]

Don’t leave the psychics off that list!

[Ski]

Two cents worth: I mentioned previously the debacle of Floyd Collins in 1925, as well as the 1951 Billy Wilder movie that was inspired by the Collins story. Not sure how many of you bothered to take a look at either, but: This sort of mass hysteria is certainly nothing new. This is just the most recent iteration of the "We must DO something!" mantra that comes out of mob mentality. The big forest fires of 1910 were another example, and (to a degree) the Yellowstone fires of 1988. I would suggest not getting your knickers all in a twist because of the cacophony generated by the "Facebook" mob. The vast majority of those people have zero actual investment in Sam Sayers - they've just become part of the herd clicking "like" buttons and "re-Tweeting" the rhetoric. I'm going to trust that Mr. Forbes has the situation well in hand, and more than likely will get (if necessary) the full cooperation of the Snohomish County Sheriff's Office and any other agencies he needs to avail himself to should things start to go sideways. As has been noted several times, the weather is changing, and it will most certainly change for the worse in fairly short order at 5000 feet above sea level. Clearly very few of these people involved have the requisite experience and knowledge to venture too far from the trailhead. Those that do start going uphill are going to get a great big dose of unforgiving reality within the next week or so. My old man used to tell me that there's nothing to be gained by getting into a pissing match with a skunk. Let the "Facebook" crowd rave away - it will serve only to convince those in the positions of authority that they're dealing with a bunch of kooks.

[Frango]

[BigBrunyon]

I bet its storming up there now!!! Its probably a chaos scene in camp as we speak, tent walls being breached by the rain, everyone frantically trying to patch it up, bud garula carl is probably yelling orders at everyone! Utter chaos

[peppersteak'n'ale]

A petition has been started https://www.change.org/p/operation-relentless-pursuit-findsamsayers-usfs-allow-operation-relentless-pursuit-to-carry-out-its-mission-to-findsamsayers?recruiter=354135536&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition

[Anne Elk]

[ale_capone]

i truly hope they find her before it snows. for closure, and because it will be impossible after. the dangers of winter camping are getting a little overblown here. went out with josh lewis once on keyes peak. he was stronger, and more careful then i thought he would be. i wont call him a performer, but i think he had a colorful writing style that could make a benign slip on a heather slope sound gripping. i liked him and his reports. his early Columbia peak trip report is one of my favorite reports by anyone. duct tape socks... classic.

[Freesolo]

[moonspots]

[rbuzby]

[ale_capone]

solid stuff freesolo. i cant recall. was there any new snow when fowler went missing? how far north do you think he made it?

[rbuzby]

Operation Relentless Pursuit has been formed and in action with non-stop search for Sam. With nearly 34,000 followers and volunteers, the search will continue until Sam is found. After exhaustive Action Plans, Incident Action Plans, Standard Operations Procedures have been compiled and approved, and all supplies needed have been obtained, many through donations, Operations Relentless Pursuit was hit by a last-minute critical and unnecessary roadblock. "Action Plans, Incident Action Plans, Standard Operations Procedures..." This phrase has appeared in several communications from Kevin recently. It sounds like someone trying to BS their way into sounding organized. The same way the recent press release made it sound like some kind of paramilitary operation, with fancy titles for everybody. This group just causes the BS meter to redline. But they have everyone on Facebook convinced. "Please don't let bureaucracy come before a human life" Another quote from FB. This is really bad stuff to be spreading. They are trying to rile up everyone into thinking that she is alive but the forest service wont let them go rescue her. Inciting people with a false narrative. Creating a twitter frenzy. Why would anyone or agency want to hold up this mission to bring home someone's daughter? Please help us remove roadblocks!!!! Peter Forbes refused permit for base camp to Sam Sayers volunteer search party. This is cruel especially since they followed all the rules. Denied last minute. Please share her story to get them help finding her. This last minute blocking of search efforts is unacceptable and it is further risking the safety of searchers. The Forest Service has brought a family paid search for their daughter to a screeching halt at Vesper Peak! PLEASE HELP US RIGHT THIS WRONG! PLEASE! The Forest Service is putting up OBSTACLES to hinder the search to #findsamsayers. PLEASE COVER THIS HEARTBREAKING TWIST TO THE STORY. No. More. Red. Tape. #findSamSayers mom told she can’t continue search!?! Why are they making this so difficult!?! Why isn’t anybody covering it? @cnnbrk @cnn @FoxNews @abcnews @CBSNews @NBCNews @HuffPost @JayInslee @USForests Please Retweet! @IMKristenBell @TheEllenShow @FindSamSayers Do the right thing. Put people first. Let LOVE AND COMPASSION take over. #findsamsayers Put yourself in Samantha Sayers' family's shoes - your daughter/fiancee is missing since August 1 and bureaucratic red tape is preventing a safe, professionally planned private search. URGENT HELP is needed. @TODAYshow @USATODAY @WPXI @KDKA @CNN @forestservice @SandersHuckabee The Darrington Ranger Station in WA has no intention of reviewing request to issue a permit to search for Sam Sayers. Peter Forbes called off helicopters 19 minutes b4 closing & left for vaca. WE NEED A STRONG VOICE. Pls help us @FindSamSayers #findsamsayers Let's hope nobody gets too excited and does anything irrational.

[rongoms]

Well, I've been compelled to stop lurking and jump into this morass. Full disclosure: I'm not an avid hiker. I'm a SAR guy and have been involved in one way or another in this ....."situation" almost since the beginning. I look at things through that lens. Here's an interesting conversation between one of the admins of the "secret" #findsamsayers group which was created for the "active" members of the amateur search team. I think it's pretty telling of the mindset of the people involved, as has been discussed previously. it's not edited in any way, other than adding back the FB formatting for clarity. Ron Goins Reality Check time: Environmental law specialists are virtually always on the side of RESTRICTING access to protected areas, not forcing the Forest Service and DNR to allow someone to destroy (other people's terms, not mine) protected lands. You can't get an injunction to allow something, just to deny it, pending review. That's a non-starter. And don't forget it's an election year in an area with very militant environmental activists. It's highly unlikely that any politician is going to go against that lobby for the sake of a search effort. It's a losing battle and the financial resources it would require would be better spent setting up a base camp in an approved area and getting on with the recovery. While being at the lake is convenient, it's not required for the operation. In the professional SAR world, we very often operate of of bases that are quite removed from the search area, for a multitude of reasons, environmental concerns being one, but speed of action being another. Instead of digging in the heels and fighting for a specific location (which will simply not happen, regardless of how many change.org petitions there are), set up wherever you can and GET ON WITH THE OPERATION. I'm fully expecting to get a tonne of opposition to this position, assuming it's not simply deleted outright, but reality is often not a popular place to live. I suppose it comes down to a choice between what someone wants vs. what everyone wants. And what everyone wants is closure. Right? Ericka Minger Hi Ron. The great thing about this group it that we all have different talents and knowledge bases. It's unfortunate that you have such a negative view of someone else's position. You're more than free to follow the direction you feel led. But you aren't aware of potential donations and legal options available outside your knowledge base. Why you'd stand firmly opposed here is confusing to me. The goal here--is to find Sam. The goal here--is to use our wide stretching abilities, minds, and connections to do so. Your message doesn't feel helpful to those goals and you clearly know that since you stated that its not inline with the groups objectives of love + light = best way to bring Sam home. So, would you just pull it down please? Ron Goins It's not "negative", it's reality. I'm painfully aware of legal and financial realities of these kinds of operations. I live it every day. If everyone here really, truly wants to find Sam, then they need to accept that everything is not always "Love and Light". The best way to bring Sam home is for committed people to best use the resources they have and fighting a losing battle is simply not the best way to do that. Get set up and get out in the woods while the area is still accessible. You must agree that the team has an obligation to the people who have donated money and time to this effort to use those resources responsibly. I'm not saying that it hasn't been, but hiring a lawyer for $10k (or more) with no guarantee of success vs. getting teams out to the search area and providing them food and logistical support is a pretty easy decision, in any rational person's mind. I'm not going to take it down, as i think that a reality-based voice needs to be inserted in this effort. If that's me, fine, if it's someone else, even better. If the Admins want to silence someone simply because they're trying to present an informed, real-world opinion, well....than that's pretty telling. Ericka Minger Ron Goins You’re making assumptions that the money used for legal fees like this come from the funding operation. This group has outlined how they would like to proceed. Love and light is the theme. If that’s not for you, perhaps you should exit. As for this post, I can manage it’s viewership since I created it. Just wanted to provide you an opportunity to remove your remarks first. Ron Goins Well...yes, that's about what I expected. Make sure you silence anyone who disagrees with you. Truth, be damned. I'm all for positivity, but denial isn't actually a positive place. If you really think that throwing money at a lawyer is a better idea than boots on the ground, then perhaps you should examine your motivation for being in this effort in the first place. Feel free to censor this post, as you're clearly inclined to do, because no reality-based dissention allowed, right? It's just going to appear elsewhere anyway.

[Silvatici]

[Freesolo]