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rongoms
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PostFri Sep 21, 2018 7:16 am 
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the stupidity, it hurts!!!!
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MtnGoat
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PostFri Sep 21, 2018 7:20 am 
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Quite an interesting discussion over there as well. Mirrors comments from here on many levels, now the love and light elements in SA have another site to haunt and hate.

The most common being the observations of the amount of wasted time and $$$, the need to ditch the pseudo military BS and get experienced people in there, and empathy for Sam's mom.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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swimz
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PostFri Sep 21, 2018 7:26 am 
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Tom wrote:
Currently evaluating alternatives to allow the open discussion to continue while stabilizing the server.


Thank you for allowing this thread to continue.

It's good to have a place where there's an honest and open discussion, where different points of view are allowed, and where experienced professionals are present so that we can learn.  It does impact the thinking of the learners.

There's a lot of nice, caring people here too, and those who give of their own time to volunteer to search to rescue hikers who are believed to still be alive.
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Stefan-K
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PostFri Sep 21, 2018 7:26 am 
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yeah that Steve Monchak post is incredible, thanks Steve for all your work in trying to find Sam!

Quote:


    I appreciate all of the kind comments. We all really wanted to find Sam. To answer a few of you... Yes, We have turned in Bud, The police were made aware of the threats and we sent messages written by him directly to LE. Stolen Valor has also been reported because as a few of you know.. we old vets do not appreciate our uniforms being treated like a toy. The most important thing they are failing to do... FIND SAM SAYERS. They spend more time sitting around planning where to set up tents and where to have dinner that evening... Why all the tents if they are leaving the mountain at night? I keep track of their progress or lack of and today at 2pm they decided they had enough and left the mountain again... It again makes me question the need to spend all of the donations on equipment that is just sitting up there. The low down is this.. We had plenty of people involved in the case right after LE left the mountain along with the SAR teams. I watched as each team was booted and not to mention the 100's of others booted by Kevin.. Because they chose to question his story and how and why he needs so much money compared to other families... Like the family on Mt. Baker who may have 300-400 followers and very little resources. I live very near Vesper and it was the perfect opportunity for us to use software provided by Shane Michaels over at Wings Of Mercy (Facebook). He has developed an amazing contrast detection program that can locate a tennis ball at 150' above ground level. We offer it at no cost to the family...Yet were denied. I am also working with another software engineer that designs imagery programs for the US Military... He also offered to provide his software at no cost... The software can even trace ground that has been disturbed (buried people)... Denied. Last Saturday after doing our homework we offered to head back up again and all we asked was the use of the chopper for 2 hours. We had triangulated her cell pings and last known locations. We were told that Bud Carr did not approve of these actions so again.. Denied. In the end.. We still offer our services.. NO COST to the family so that the donations received could be put to better use such as burial or if we had found her alive for medical expenses. At this point you will continue to see pushes for more money as they claim no amount is never going to be enough. I say warn your friends and family not to donate to Bud Carr...Or any account associated with this case until proper authorities have taken control again.
     

Steve Moncbak, Yesterday at 8:23 PM      ( from websleuths.com)   

He also mentions just a bit later that he has shared all this information with Lisa, Sams mom, several weeks ago.
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Subie
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PostFri Sep 21, 2018 7:28 am 
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rongoms wrote:
the stupidity, it hurts!!!!

I guess they havenít looked at the forecast?  banghead.gif
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MtnGoat
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PostFri Sep 21, 2018 7:30 am 
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heavy dot com's 'five things' coverage
https://heavy.com/news/2018/08/samantha-sam-sayers/

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Doppelganger
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PostFri Sep 21, 2018 7:53 am 
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rongoms wrote:
the stupidity, it hurts!!!!

I'd replace the word stupidity with manipulation biggrin.gif

Without knowing more than what is presented in the screenshot (and not knowing whether KT is a member of the "operation" itself), I'm going to assume that this is a person acting with good intent, but the information made available to them is misleading. The person making the donation has been (perhaps purposefully to an extent) led to believe that this is a simple operation, the information presented to the FB spectators does not give them an accurate representation of what a search and recovery operation in the mountains requires.

I'd say it's not so much the fault of the person making the donation. A certain level of discretion and judgement may be hoped for, but you can't expect it biggrin.gif
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protectkidz
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PostFri Sep 21, 2018 7:55 am 
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MtnGoat wrote:
Quite an interesting discussion over there as well. Mirrors comments from here on many levels, now the love and light elements in SA have another site to haunt and hate.

The most common being the observations of the amount of wasted time and $$$, the need to ditch the pseudo military BS and get experienced people in there, and empathy for Sam's mom.

are you talking about the FSS Facebook page?  or Websleuths?
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MidwestGirl
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PostFri Sep 21, 2018 7:59 am 
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Websleuths
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MtnGoat
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PostFri Sep 21, 2018 8:00 am 
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Web sleuths, sorry should have made that clear.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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emlew
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PostFri Sep 21, 2018 8:11 am 
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MtnGoat wrote:
emlew wrote:
lisaabraham wrote:
You criticize "Sam's Army," but do you realize you have become your own?

It's true. Much of this thread is as pathetic as the FB army.

No one from NWH is criticizing other posters or their ideas on possibilities.

It takes folks from the FB group to sign up,  and bring their agree with groupthink, or be shut up, here.

No, there's been plenty of criticism posted here from NWH members. Who said criticism needs to be limited to  "ideas about possibilities?" in order to be considered criticism?  The fact that an angry troll (lisa) pointed it out doesn't make it less true.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "from NWH" when anyone can join NWH and many of the people posting here recently are brand new members and some admittedly from the FB page.
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rongoms
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PostFri Sep 21, 2018 8:20 am 
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Oh, no question, she's simply one of the True Faithful "supporters". She means well.

It just shows the staggering lack of trail knowledge of this group and that even the leaders don't have a clue what they are doing.

After seeing the stuff they're up to at the base camp, I'm left to wonder what they're going to do for supplies for their Afternoon Tea.
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Doppelganger
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PostFri Sep 21, 2018 8:25 am 
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MtnGoat wrote:
heavy dot com's 'five things' coverage
https://heavy.com/news/2018/08/samantha-sam-sayers/

It's interesting to go back and review the details of the bag party as it was reported while it was happening (the article is from early August, but still valuable since it provides an archive of statements and events that cannot be edited by the "operation"). Just breaking down some numbers, let's go for a quick ride. Hope the Seattle Times doesn't mind a few borrowed words.

The Seattle Times (published 8/4, revised 8/5) wrote:

Her boyfriend, Kevin Dares, and his siblings say they have spent close to $5,000 for 150 one-gallon Ziploc bags, each stuffed with Clif bars, a poncho, socks, compass, flashlight, fire sticks and a lighter. They have been given to searchers to place in the area.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/missing-hiker/

Here we see that the cost for each bag is approximately $33.33. Later in the same article the text of Kevin's Bag Plea is reposted, unedited, and there seems to be a price discrepancy (if the FB version was ever deleted or edited, I am not aware):

It's Kevin! wrote:
These are all the items I have in the bags so far. Cost was roughly $1000 for twenty bags but Iím buying out this small town and prices arenít cheap.

Perhaps an offhand remark, or an inaccurate estimate on his part. I could probably not be counted on to provide an accurate, off the cuff estimate. But since I think this was from a post made to FB, I would assume more care would be taken to ensure the correct numbers were posted. He manages property, so we can assume basic math skills are present.

These bags cost $50 each. Now let's take a look at the items contained within those bags:

It's Kevin! wrote:
I need your help. We are setting up deposit bags to leave in the forest. The items they contain are as follows:

Food Ė needs to be completely sealed. No home made. Need most bang for buck, high calorie count. Cliff bars are a big help.
Flashlight with set of extra batteries
Compass Ė tiny. If Sam finds the bags each one can be labeled with a general direction for closest trail or road
Pancho Ė sets are good but small and light is key
Parachord
Pair of socks
2 lighters
Knife
Caution tape

Iíve left out water. There are lots of rivers and glacial feed. Clean water. If Sam is on the move she can get water and since weight and size are key Iím packing the bags with other essentials.

No bag larger than a 1 gallon bag

These are all the items I have in the bags so far. Cost was roughly $1000 for twenty bags but Iím buying out this small town and prices arenít cheap.

Maaaaybe you could hit $50 per bag if you were shopping strictly at REI these days. If you were focused on stretching the budget, you could make those bags for a fraction of the lower stated cost of $33.33 per bag.

Make of it what you will.
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rbuzby
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PostFri Sep 21, 2018 8:29 am 
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rongoms wrote:
the stupidity, it hurts!!!!

Someone on facebook posted that the mom should alert the searchers because she had a vision!

She "saw" an area of clearing, below a cliff, with water falling nearby.


Hmmmm, how did the Cascades get their name? Because there are 60 gajillion spots in the cascades that fit that description?  Yup.
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pula58
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PostFri Sep 21, 2018 8:32 am 
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I suggest that if anyone here has a concern about what's going on up on Vesper peak that they call the Darrington Ranger station, ask for Peter Forbes. Please behave with courtesy.

Stop talking, start doing (make the call), at least we will have tried to put a stop to this encampment up on Vesper.

Let the so-called "army" set up at the trail head, or a nearby campground, use porta potties, and propane for stoves and tent heater. Stipulate NO fire rings or burning of wood.

Many of us here are not opposed to the body recovery effort, but very much opposed to the camp up there. Moving the camp to the road or nearby campground does not stop the search.

That guy Carr is dangerous, He doesn't just seem dangerous, but from what he has sad, he IS dangerous. The authorities need to know about what this guy (Carr) has said.

I keep hoping that this camp will be removed.

And then there is the asking for continued donations to "find" Sam Sayers without disclosing that she is certainly (sadly) deceased. This is dishonest.
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