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Bernardo
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PostWed Dec 26, 2018 12:30 pm 
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Ski wrote:
... just a couple snips from an email I received earlier this evening:

Hon. Derek Kilmer (D - Washington 6th District) wrote:
All Visitor Services in the National Parks Will Be Suspended.  While there will not be barriers put up to prevent entry, there will be no services for visitors to National Park Service sites – with restrooms, visitors’ centers, and interpretative programs all closed during a shutdown. 

Hon. Derek Kilmer (D - Washington 6th District) wrote:
I met with a hotel owner near Olympic National Park after a shutdown a few years ago.  He laid it out pretty well.

He said: “Derek, when the government shut down, I lost a ton of business because people weren’t sure how long the park would be closed. They just went somewhere else. I’m still recovering a year later, and every time this seems like it is going to happen, people decide to go someplace else.”

The president’s decision has a direct effect on our economy. It risks the $26.2 billion that outdoor recreation generates in our state, and 201,000 jobs that are directly dependent on the outdoor economy. And, it cuts into the bottom line at restaurants and other small businesses around our parks.

(* hey, that second part sounds just like what happens when you close roads into National Parks! *)

I am very interested in knowing about how the shutdown affects hiking, parks, recreational economy, etc., but I would like to hear more factual analysis.  How much of the $26 billion is really at risk for example?  $26 billion is a fake number in the sense it is misleading political rhetoric.  If we knew the percent impact per day that would be interesting.  $26 billion divided by 365 is $71 million per day.  That's a lot of money.  I don't know what that constitutes.  If 5% is lost on shutdown days, we are talking about $ 3.5 million per day.   That seems high to me.  Anyone have a better guess or have any refinements?
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Tom
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PostWed Dec 26, 2018 2:20 pm 
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Moved to stewardship forum.  I believe the $20+ billion relates to a 2014 study.

https://www.thenewstribune.com/outdoors/article26247310.html
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Ski
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PostWed Dec 26, 2018 4:41 pm 
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1. Open web browser.
2. go to Google.com
3. type in "Economic impact of <insert National Park name here>"
4. press "enter"
5. read.

There are no shortage of studies available for public view which clearly show the net economic impacts of National Parks. I think you might be able to find similar documents for National Forests and National Monuments as well.
They are huge income generators. Olympic generates more money than Rainier. (go figure.)

As noted above in the quote by the owner of an independent private for-profit business, if the tourism opportunities are not available, the tourist dollars go elsewhere.

Of course, if you're anti business, if you're opposed to free market capitalism, or you're some kind of commie rat, this is a good thing.
For the rest of us, not so much.

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Kim Brown
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PostFri Jan 04, 2019 11:11 am 
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Good question, Bernardo. It's good to have solid information when making a point about something; citing 20 billion with no idea what that means doesn't really make a compelling argument and won't sway anyone's opinion!

I'm curious about figures like that, too.

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Ski
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PostFri Jan 04, 2019 3:12 pm 
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Just a wild guess, but I'd posit that Kilmer's $26.2 billion dollar figure is probably the best wild guess estimate of all tourism and recreational dollars generated and includes everything from admission fees at Mt. Rainier National Park to gross dollars sales figures at REI to the gate receipts for the Seattle Underground Tours.

Those papers I cited above break the figures down for dollars generated by National Parks, but you have to download the documents and read through them to ferret that information out of them.

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I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Jake Neiffer
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PostFri Jan 04, 2019 6:48 pm 
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Ski's correct, I believe, the large sum of money estimated includes everything related to outdoor activities such as gas and sandwiches for a day outing.  Seems like there might actually be more people visiting the parks during the shutdown, at least down at Joshua Tree and Yosemite.  So this politician's statement seems incorrect, we're all still getting our REI goods for Christmas.  Park entrance fees are a small part of the equation.

Here is a pdf explaining how the estimated total is arrived at.  Page 2 (the 16th page in the pdf) has a box with an example of someone's trip to Mt Rainier.

https://www.rco.wa.gov/documents/ORTF/EconomicAnalysisOutdoorRec.pdf

edit: I think this is the same report referenced in the link Tom provided
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Chief Joseph
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PostFri Jan 04, 2019 8:19 pm 
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Jake Neiffer wrote:
Ski's correct, I believe

Ski is always correct.

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Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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Ski
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PostFri Jan 04, 2019 11:07 pm 
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HaHa! Very funny.

In the context of this particular discussion, I think my best wild guess just above is probably an accurate assessment of Kilmer's statement.

But the bottom line is that whether or not Kilmer's statement is 100% accurate is really tangential to the subject at hand. If you want to pick it apart because you don't like Kilmer, or you have some political agenda, that's all fine and well, but this isn't the venue for that sort of nonsense - take it to another site.

The subject of the thread is "Impacts of government shutdown on recreational economy".

Olympic National Park is most likely Washington State's Number One cash cow in the amount of money generated by tourism in and around the Park. The dollar numbers are all available in the studies available from NPS and other sources. Mt. Rainier National Park runs a distant second.

I have no clue how much money is generated into local economies by the National Forests in Washington State, but I would guess it is not an insignificant amount.

Fortunately, this idiotic move by the current administration in Washington DC is being done in the middle of the slow season, so the net impact is far less than it would be had this stunt been pulled in the middle of June. It is, nonetheless, unquestionably hitting the pocketbooks of small business owners up in Port Angeles and Sequim and Forks and Aberdeen and Bremerton and Ashford and Elbe and Carbonado and Wilkeson (those that haven't already folded in the last two mentioned.)

The money in concern is not just the gate receipts. It's the gasoline that's not purchased, the motel rooms that aren't rented, the hamburgers that aren't eaten, the tour guides that aren't hired, the souvenirs that aren't carried home in luggage, and any number of other things tourists buy from local small businesses near National Parks and National Forests.

If you don't think this jackassery is having a detrimental impact on privately owned, for-profit, independent small businessmen, that constituency that is supposedly the one whose welfare the majority party in the United States Senate and the executive branch of our government claim they're looking out for, you're simply not paying attention.

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I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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RumiDude
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PostMon Jan 07, 2019 2:50 am 
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Bernardo wrote:
I am very interested in knowing about how the shutdown affects hiking, parks, recreational economy, etc., but I would like to hear more factual analysis.  How much of the $26 billion is really at risk for example?  $26 billion is a fake number in the sense it is misleading political rhetoric.  If we knew the percent impact per day that would be interesting.  $26 billion divided by 365 is $71 million per day.  That's a lot of money.  I don't know what that constitutes.  If 5% is lost on shutdown days, we are talking about $ 3.5 million per day.  That seems high to me.  Anyone have a better guess or have any refinements?

Maybe you could email Derek Kilmer, or your own Congressional representative and ask. Email doesn't even require a stamp. Email all of the relevant public officials involved, including US Representatives, Senators, Governor, etc.

Rumi

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jinx'sboy
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PostMon Jan 07, 2019 8:45 am 
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Economic benefits of recreation use on ALL National Forests in the US is about $10 Billion, supporting about 140,000 jobs.  About 25% of the $$s and jobs are attributable to Downhill Ski areas.
(https://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/programs/nvum/pdf/5082016NationalSummaryReport062217.pdf - about page 19)

Breaking it down to a particular State or local Forest is more difficult.

If you want to delve into NF use and economic statistics, start here:
https://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/programs/nvum/
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PostWed Jan 16, 2019 1:29 pm 
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Wednesday January 16, 2019 11:57 PST

Olympic National Park News Release

Recreational Razor Clamming Cancelled at Kalaloch Beach in Olympic National Park during Government Shutdown


PORT ANGELES, WA – Due to the federal government lapse of appropriations, the upcoming razor clam digs scheduled for January 19-21, 2019 are cancelled.

The next razor clam digs at Kalaloch Beach are proposed for February 16-18, 2019.

More information on planned digs this weekend at other beaches and recreational razor clamming can be found at wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/shellfish/razorclams/.

For updates on the shutdown, please visit www.doi.gov/shutdown.

www.nps.gov

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I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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PostWed Jan 16, 2019 5:27 pm 
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Wednesday January 16, 2019 14:23 PST

WDFW NEWS RELEASE

WDFW closes Kalaloch beach for razor clamming Jan. 19-21; Digs proceed at Twin Harbors, Mocrocks and Copalis


OLYMPIA – Due to the federal shutdown, the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) has rescinded three razor clam digs at Kalaloch beach that were set to occur Jan. 19-21.

"We are closing Kalaloch beach to razor clam digging in response to a request by Olympic National Park," said Dan Ayres, WDFW coastal shellfish manager. "Olympic National Park staff are not available to help ensure a safe and orderly opening in the area," he added. WDFW and the Park will consider alternate days to make up for this loss of harvest opportunity following the current federal shutdown.

Digs at three other beaches, Twin Harbors, Mocrocks and Copalis, will proceed as planned, said Ayres. State shellfish managers with WDFW approved those digs on evening low tides last week after marine toxin tests showed the clams are safe to eat. No digging will be allowed on any beach before noon.

The following beaches, dates, and evening low tides remain open to razor clamming:

Jan. 17, Thursday; 3:39 p.m.; 0.4 feet; Twin Harbors
Jan. 18, Friday; 4:30 p.m.; -0.4 feet; Twin Harbors
Jan. 19, Saturday; 5:18 p.m.; -1.1 feet; Twin Harbors, Mocrocks
Jan. 20, Sunday; 6:05 p.m.; -1.6 feet; Twin Harbors, Copalis
Jan. 21, Monday; 6:51 p.m.; -1.8 feet; Twin Harbors, Mocrocks
Dan Ayres, WDFW coastal shellfish manager, recommends that diggers hit the beach about an hour or two before low tide for the best results.

"Diggers should always keep an eye on the surf and come prepared with good lighting devices for the digs that occur after dark," Ayres said.

Ayres said the department has also tentatively scheduled a dig in early February, pending the results of another round of marine toxin tests. If those tests are favorable, that dig will run Feb. 1-3.

More information on planned digs can be found on WDFW's razor clam webpage at https://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/shellfish/razorclams/.

All diggers age 15 or older must have an applicable 2018-19 fishing license to harvest razor clams on any beach. Licenses, ranging from a three-day razor clam license to an annual combination fishing license, are available on WDFW's website at https://fishhunt.dfw.wa.gov and from license vendors around the state.

Under state law, diggers at open beaches can take 15 razor clams per day and are required to keep the first 15 they dig. Each digger's clams must be kept in a separate container.

-WDFW-

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"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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