Anyway -- no one is going to be persuaded one way other by anything on this thread.
On the plus side, some people are coming to this thread for information, not to argue their side of a discussion, and it does appear to be worthwhile in that respect, at least to a few people.
PLAY SAFE! SKI ONLY IN CLOCKWISE DIRECTION! LET'S ALL HAVE FUN TOGETHER!
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PLAY SAFE! SKI ONLY IN CLOCKWISE DIRECTION! LET'S ALL HAVE FUN TOGETHER!
Anyway -- no one is going to be persuaded one way other by anything on this thread.
On the plus side, some people are coming to this thread for information, not to argue their side of a discussion, and it does appear to be worthwhile in that respect, at least to a few people.
I appreciate your positive attitude!
Hopefully nobody is reading this and deciding to head for the hills in a 66 VW, wearing blue jeans, cotton flannel, "waffle stompers", a trapper nelson, hand axe and a #10 coffee can for a cookpot and into a rain storm -- been there, done that.
Funny the rapid in question is called Separation Rapid (now under Lake Mead).
They choose to separate yes.
Anyway -- no one is going to be persuaded one way other by anything on this thread.
I'm trying to choose between a new battery in my PLB and a InReach Mini. Reading about peoples' experiences using the InReach has been persuasive for me.
We just used our new InReach Explorer Plus last night on a three day trip to some high elevation lakes. We received an incoming message from my horse sitter that my well quit working. This was considered an emergency. We were able to contact our well repair guy this morning through InReach while experiencing a complete whiteout and gale force winds. The only problem we had was that to type in our messages we had to remove our gloves and our fingers quickly went numb, so we took turns typing. To address this problem, I’m going to pick up a stylus or two at the dollar store and include it in our ten+ essentials.
Hopefully nobody is reading this and deciding to head for the hills in a 66 VW, wearing blue jeans, cotton flannel, "waffle stompers", a trapper nelson, hand axe and a #10 coffee can for a cookpot and into a rain storm -- been there, done that.
You got me bro!
PS...don't forget the wild turkey and Skoal....funny, my Dad had a 66 VW up until recently.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
RumiDude -
Appreciate and agree with the sentiment of your post from the "Vesper Peak" thread that was the catalyst for this thread, notwithstanding the flame war that it seems to have generated.
It's pretty clear that there are many members here who seem to have forgotten that we are all not only responsible for, but also entitled to making our own personal choices about what gear we choose to carry, and that it isn't necessary or requisite for any of us to justify those choices with empirical evidence.
What's curious is that while there are a few who seem to be somewhat forcefully arguing that everybody needs this high-priced gadgetry, nobody thus far has been able to refute your claim that there are no studies, and there has been no comprehensive research done, proving that electronic gadgetry helps to prevent or contributes to people being lost/stranded/killed in the out of doors..
How about instead of the "strawman" or "logical fallacies" or "false attribution" retorts, or the charts and graphs and videos about old VW Beetles, somebody come up with some actual data that explores the question of whether electronic gadgetry provides a tangible benefit or whether it contributes to what appears to be a growing problem?
While we're at it:
I can have papers drawn up for what I believe is commonly referred to as a "living will". I can sign my name on a piece of paper and say "Do not resuscitate."
Where do I sign up for "Do not rescue?"
I've lain in a hospital bed with tubes plugged into my veins and wires plugged into my central nervous system and been told "You need to get your affairs in order." I found it to be an unpleasant experience, and not one that I would want to be my last experience in life.
I just got back from a week out watching the trees grow. Before I left my closest acquaintances (as always) voiced their concerns.
"What day should we call 911 if you don't show up?"
"Don't call."
"But what if something happens?"
"What's the worst that could happen?"
"You could die."
"Do you know of another place where I'd rather die?"
==
Let me see your evidence. Show me the peer-reviewed paper on "Effects of personal locator beacons, "In-Reach", and other assorted and sundry electronic gadgetry."
I'm waiting.
(* FTR: I've been sitting here for over two hours trying to catch up on a week's worth of posts, and I chose not to read every post of this thread, so if I've missed the answer I'm looking for, kindly point it out. )
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
I just got back from a week out watching the trees grow. Before I left my closest acquaintances (as always) voiced their concerns.
"What day should we call 911 if you don't show up?"
"Don't call."
"But what if something happens?"
"What's the worst that could happen?"
"You could die."
"Do you know of another place where I'd rather die?"
+1
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
FYI: I have not been trying to “change people’s minds”.
+1 For me it originally was just sharing my own personal decision and the why. I felt it was important because despite what some may feel, it is not a black or white conclusion. This is a real grey area and I think an individual's choice should be respected and not ridiculed. Deciding not to carry one of these is not foolish or irresponsible, it simply is one's choice of how they want to travel in the backcountry.
The consumer use of these devices has been relatively recent phenomenon. For a long time most only PLBs existed and the only people I knew using them for backpacking were those doing pretty extreme adventures in Alaska and such. Sat phones were crazy expensive to own and use. Then SPOT came along and changed everything. More and more people began using SPOT. InReach has even been more recent and the use of popularity of it has really skyrocketed. I would say it is the product du jour among these devices now. The inReach Mini is the latest lightest of the line and looks to possibly become the most popular. The inReach line needs to be paired with a smart phone in order to fully utilize all its features.
Almost my entire reason for choosing not to obtain and carry one of these devices is due to what I call my backcountry aesthetic. The cost is the other reason, though a minor one.
Rumi
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
This is a real grey area and I think an individual's choice should be respected and not ridiculed. Deciding not to carry one of these is not foolish or irresponsible, it simply is one's choice of how they want to travel in the backcountry.
But if you weren't being wrong about what sort of electronic gadgetry you were hauling, or what type of stove you were using, or what sort of "waterproof/breathable" rain shell you were wearing, or how you were tying your shoes, what would people on this site have to argue about?
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Implementing the DNR protocol in state law took a lot of effort.
Negotiating end of life with someone whose health is failing is somewhat complicated.
For example choosing not to use an AED to restart the heart is but one choice.
Another choice is whether or not to use antibiotics to fight an infection or whether to administer IV fluids to treat dehydration and many other detailed choices that need to be made along the way.
So with the "Do not rescue" protocol -- how would this work? Would you leave a big note in your vehicle so that law enforcement knew to just tow the vehicle after a certain date instead of mounting a search?
Also with DNR protocols the patient (and their power of attorney for health care) has the right to amend the DNR at anytime for either more care or less -- how would this work for the "do no rescue" protocol. What if you are immobilized with a minor injury (e.g. broken ankle) and no search is initialed -- but another party happens to find you before you starve to death -- are you going to refuse rescue at that point ?
How does that work for your family and estate ? How do they obtain a death certificate ? How long do Social Security payments continue after your disappearance ?
A lot of legal issues to work out to create such a protocol.
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