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PostMon Sep 24, 2018 11:53 am 
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Please keep this topic within the boundaries of stewardship. Feel free to link alternative discussions below in this wiki post but do NOT spam this topic with such discussion or invite requests.  Such posts will be deleted.

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Washington/comments/9erxip/sam_sayers_still_missing_in_washington/
2nd Reddit Thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/9hc0em/missing_hiker_on_vesper_peak_chaos_in_the_cascades/
Teton Gravity:  https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/321860
Facebook:  Official page and alternative facebook group no longer public

New Facebook study group created by Steve Monchak on 10/8  The Truth of the Sam Sayers Case
https://www.facebook.com/groups/698480987181194/ (no longer public on 11/8/18, reappeared as a closed group 12/7/18)


Wiki summmary last edited by Windstorm on Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:00 pm (this post can be edited by any member)
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PostSun Sep 23, 2018 12:06 am 
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Broad-brush unsupported generalizations, innuendo, and character assassination will have absolutely zero impact on any of the lands management agencies which are responsible for the administration of the area.

It would be far more constructive to keep the discussion in this thread on topic.

==

Fallaway wrote:
The poster who shared this picture also had pictures of scraps of caution tape in the vicinity of the bag.

Fallaway, you linked to one image which shows a small snip of the yellow caution tape on top of a rock. Are there other photos of these bags (or their contents) available? Can you post them here or link to them?

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SwitchbackFisher
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PostSun Sep 23, 2018 8:07 am 
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Ski wrote:
Broad-brush unsupported generalizations, innuendo, and character assassination will have absolutely zero impact on any of the lands management agencies which are responsible for the administration of the area.

It would be far more constructive to keep the discussion in this thread on topic.

==

Fallaway wrote:
The poster who shared this picture also had pictures of scraps of caution tape in the vicinity of the bag.

Fallaway, you linked to one image which shows a small snip of the yellow caution tape on top of a rock. Are there other photos of these bags (or their contents) available? Can you post them here or link to them?

I agree that this probably should be left to end here before it becomes another topic that gets out of hand.

I also would like to see more pictures especially since the 2 posted it appeared the bag was in good condition then the second picture almost looked staged with the tape. Probably someone just trying to stir the pot in my opinion. If I ran across one of these I would treat it the same as any other trash and remove it.

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PostSun Sep 23, 2018 10:12 am 
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burck17 wrote:
If I ran across one of these I would treat it the same as any other trash and remove it.

absolutely. to me "leave no trace" also means cleaning-up other peoples trace whenever/wherever possible.

Leaving bags with food distributed around the Vesper trail is, in my opinion, anti-stewardship.
It is exactly what NOT to do in terms of training bears to associate these locations with food. This could lead to human deaths from bear attack. Not to mention that the bags will end up as garbage strewn about the area.

The searchers have shown disregard to stewardship issues, and disregard towards the safety of other people with these food bags, placing many other people quite possibly in harms way.

I will not be going up there to take photos or report on what the situation is because , quite frankly, I am afraid of that group of people. Budd Carr has publicly threatened forest service chief Peter Forbes with violence, and has said that he's so pissed that he'd cut down every tree on the mountain. Dangerous.

With all the military flavor (camouflage gear, militaristic language, verbiage like "operation endless pursuit") of this high camp "command center" no way I would go up there, and I hope they are removed by local law enforcement.
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Schroder
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PostSun Sep 23, 2018 10:31 am 
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Ski wrote:
Fallaway wrote:
The poster who shared this picture also had pictures of scraps of caution tape in the vicinity of the bag.

Fallaway, you linked to one image which shows a small snip of the yellow caution tape on top of a rock. Are there other photos of these bags (or their contents) available? Can you post them here or link to them?

I had the impression when I saw these that it was up Williamson Creek and Stony Creek
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PostSun Sep 23, 2018 10:52 am 
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As far as I can tell their base camp is in the NRCA just left of the upper left corner of the patch of National Forest in this map, on the bench on the ridge. Sperry Peak, the trail up to Headlee Pass, upper Wirtz Basin and the entire Lake Elan basin is in the NRCA.

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PostSun Sep 23, 2018 10:55 am 
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images linked to in Fallaway's post on previous page:




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PostSun Sep 23, 2018 10:59 am 
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Removed by moderator
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PostSun Sep 23, 2018 11:12 am 
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Schroder, you seem familiar with the area. The map you posted there makes me ask:
- Is what appears to be a body of water between Vesper Peak and Sperry Peak a lake? And does it drain down into Vesper Creek?
- In the legend, it shows those tiny numbers on the streams as "State type", but the DNR website says they've changed that numeric type system to one using names (i.e., "fish", "non-fish", etc.)

Tell me if I've got this right here: The watershed between Vesper Peak and Sperry Peak drains into Vesper Creek, a tributary of the Sultan River, which appears to be a Class I (fish-bearing) stream. Correct?
The Culmback Dam is downstream from that point and prevents fish passage beyond that point in the river, correct?

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I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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PostSun Sep 23, 2018 11:20 am 
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Ski wrote:
- Is what appears to be a body of water between Vesper Peak and Sperry Peak a lake? And does it drain down into Vesper Creek?

It's Lake Elan (some hiking books call it Vesper Lake). Yes, it drains to Vesper Creek -> Sultan River -> Spada Lake.  Spada Lake is dammed.

If you look at the Morning Star Trails Plan, you'll find the stream classification maps
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PostSun Sep 23, 2018 11:22 am 
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thanks. just needed to do some digging to ferret that out.

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Anne Elk
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PostSun Sep 23, 2018 11:22 am 
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Schroder, thanks for sharing the detailed jurisdiction map. Those are some strange carve-outs. It would be interesting to know the history behind that. If I had to guess, it perhaps has something to do with old mining claims.

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PostSun Sep 23, 2018 11:44 am 
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I've stared at a Google satellite overlay to the USGS map and now I'm thinking they're close to the lake outlet in that National Forest section.
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PostSun Sep 23, 2018 11:47 am 
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The dam at Spada Lake notwithstanding, from what I can glean from a cursory look at the DNR documents they're saying there's a resident population of Bull Trout in that watershed?
Or is it just another case of "suitable habitat"?

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PostSun Sep 23, 2018 11:50 am 
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There definitely are bull trout on the upper Sultan River and Elk Creek.  Since they abandoned the upper Sultan road that valley has been covered with a lot of beaver dams. There's a lot of water in that basin.

Those images of the bags are at the Lake Elan outlet.  I recall seeing other photos of tape & bags in the woods and they were down on Williamson Creek.
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PostSun Sep 23, 2018 12:08 pm 
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Schroder wrote:
I've stared at a Google satellite overlay to the USGS map and now I'm thinking they're close to the lake outlet in that National Forest section.

If you enlarge the photo put up by Bramble_Scramble on 9/20 on this page of the old thread,  you can see the big white tent on the far ridge, between the two largest trees.
http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1138969&sid=a7f115627cda3023169913fb8e02608c#1138969

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