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PostMon Sep 24, 2018 10:53 am 
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Please keep this topic within the boundaries of stewardship. Feel free to link alternative discussions below in this wiki post but do NOT spam this topic with such discussion or invite requests.  Such posts will be deleted.

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Washington/comments/9erxip/sam_sayers_still_missing_in_washington/
2nd Reddit Thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/9hc0em/missing_hiker_on_vesper_peak_chaos_in_the_cascades/
Teton Gravity:  https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/321860
Facebook:  Official page and alternative facebook group no longer public

New Facebook study group created by Steve Monchak on 10/8  The Truth of the Sam Sayers Case
https://www.facebook.com/groups/698480987181194/ (no longer public on 11/8/18, reappeared as a closed group 12/7/18)


Wiki summmary last edited by Windstorm on Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:00 pm (this post can be edited by any member)
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Anne Elk
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PostWed Nov 07, 2018 12:32 pm 
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My thanks also, Vertec.  up.gif  up.gif
The trench is particularly concerning since it will enlarge over time without intervention. Some remediation should definitely happen.

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"There are yahoos out there.  Itís why we canít have nice things."  - Tom Mahood
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Vertec
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PostWed Nov 07, 2018 2:15 pm 
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Anne Elk wrote:
My thanks also, Vertec.  up.gif  up.gif
The trench is particularly concerning since it will enlarge over time without intervention. Some remediation should definitely happen.

The trench has already enlarged.  I'm surprised no one noticed it because it appeared in camp photos posted to their social media, which have been mostly taken down.

However, one such "resolute" post remains:


https://www.instagram.com/p/BoXiy8DHyki

The albeit smaller trench is clearly visible along the edge of the tent in the above photo posted on 9/30/18.  Also visible is the point where it diverts away from the covered "porch" tarp at the main tent floor corner stake.

I don't know if the above post will also be expunged.  If others have their own photos of the tent+trench, please post them.

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Out There, carrying the self-evident truth I am endowed by my Creator with unalienable rights of self-defended Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
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BigBrunyon
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PostThu Nov 08, 2018 7:10 pm 
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Bud Garulo is still up there? He still making forays into the area?

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pula58
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PostFri Nov 09, 2018 2:40 pm 
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It is a real bummer that those idiots built a trench. Such utter selfishness to dig a trench just to avoid a wet tent floor. I suspected that those guys would leave mess behind.
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Ski
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PostFri Nov 09, 2018 4:50 pm 
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Has this issue been brought to the attention of Mr. Forbes?

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I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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DigitalJanitor
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PostFri Nov 09, 2018 5:15 pm 
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Malachai Constant wrote:
The further south you go the less useful DST is. In the tropics the seasonal difference between length of day is trivial.

Dude, you crossed the streams, lol.

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Damian
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PostFri Nov 09, 2018 9:34 pm 
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Eleven pages of concern, speculation and "idiot" bombs.  And all we get is a trench and a bare spot?

Notwithstanding the love note, nor choice of camping protocol which differs from us, if one of my hiker kids ever goes missing I hope that many people care.
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Vertec
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PostSat Nov 10, 2018 3:04 pm 
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Damian wrote:
Eleven pages of concern, speculation and "idiot" bombs.  And all we get is a trench and a bare spot?

Notwithstanding the love note, nor choice of camping protocol which differs from us, if one of my hiker kids ever goes missing I hope that many people care.

I know, Right?

Almost (but not quite) as pathetic as spending 50-100k on a private search effort that yielded nothing more than a trench and bare spot - as of yet.  I really hope a detailed and accurate record of areas searched is published by the private search party.  Such a public record certainly cannot hurt any future possibility of obtaining answers for the family.

Vesper Peak is hiked often by many people, many of whom are puzzled by this unfortunate event.  Taking/posting a few photos (during hikes I would have done regardless of this situation) is not a tremendous effort, but it does require more than a keyboard.  The photos document an undeniable impact of the private search effort.

Law Enforcement and official SAR are committed to doing their best, we owe them tremendous gratitude - EVEN if we may not have all the information (no one ever does).  If anyone's "hiker kids" go missing, I'm sure they will continue in that fine tradition.

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Out There, carrying the self-evident truth I am endowed by my Creator with unalienable rights of self-defended Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
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DIYSteve
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PostSat Nov 10, 2018 7:19 pm 
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Damian wrote:
Notwithstanding the love note, nor choice of camping protocol which differs from us, if one of my hiker kids ever goes missing I hope that many people care.

I would think everyone on this forum cares about Sam, her family and loved ones. Her disappearance is tragic. IMO, the weird exploitation of the tragedy by the camo-clad commandos makes it that much worse.
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Anne Elk
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PostSun Nov 11, 2018 12:30 pm 
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^^^^^^

This.

I completely agree with what DIYSteve said.  I don't think  the concerns and critiques expressed by folks here re the methods and tone of the way the private SAR was handled indicates the contrary.

What's most dispiriting is that in the 30+ years of living out here and doing trips in the mountains, what I've seen come with the increasing human visitation to the terrain is not just the degradation that comes with over-use, but the flagrant and willful harms done by people who behave as if it's their backyard to litter and deface any way they choose.  LNT?  They never heard of the concept or have a clue why it might be important.

If I recall, only part of the Vesper area falls into the Morningstar NRCA. A state NRCA gets a lot less protection (I think) than a federally designated wilderness area. The sub-alpine and alpine areas of Vesper and Morningstar are as fragile as the Alpine Lakes area, and some of the most beautiful that we have in the central Cascades.  After a 10+ year stretch of not visiting,  it was painful to see the changes I noted during my last visit in 2014.  Damage is much more noticeable when you've been away for a while.

I started this thread with the hope that it would be a place where we could discuss ideas for how best to conserve the area, be it direct remediation or possibly restricted access, although I recognize that's usually applied to wilderness areas.

But to get back to specifics,

Damian wrote:
And all we get is a trench and a bare spot?

Likely not, it's just that no one's found/looked for their communal pit toilet.  The private SAR supposedly set up one.  Don't know if that's worse than the alternative.  It really ruins the ambience to be out in "God's country" and discovering last year's TP lying just off-trail, or anywhere else, no regard to even digging a hole.  I was just out to the Olympic Beaches in late August.  The situation "in the trees" is disgusting.  If I recall from the locked thread, someone reported that the 49th Parallel crowd left a mess in Wirtz Basin, too. Then there was all the fire-building.  I believe the FS posted rules for hikers in the entire area was "no fires" mad.gif

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"There are yahoos out there.  Itís why we canít have nice things."  - Tom Mahood
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