Forum Index > Stewardship > Wynoochee Restoration & Road Management Project Proposal - Olympic National Forest 09/24/18
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Pyrites
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PostSun Oct 28, 2018 12:36 am 
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The conversions of a couple spur roads dropping into S Fk Skok certainly lack esthetics. In RR’s frequent traveled area.

Best.

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Gregory
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PostSun Oct 28, 2018 3:27 am 
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Maybe ten years ago they gated the 220 road  to vehicle access. People were flat out abusing the Anderson creek bar. Then they decided to decommission the road. Holy cow was that a mess. Had to of been a college degree involved with that project.I believe they ended up rebuilding the road to get the last of the old growth out of there. Made no sense.
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JonnyQuest
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PostSun Oct 28, 2018 9:36 am 
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Ski wrote:
anybody remember that trip report with LOTS of photos where they had to walk up that gawdawful mess that USFS called a "roads to trails" project?

Granite lakes?
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RodF
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PostSun Oct 28, 2018 1:07 pm 
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Ski wrote:
anybody remember that trip report with LOTS of photos where they had to walk up that gawdawful mess that USFS called a "roads to trails" project?

There are so many in the Skok... http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=942142
http://mosswalks.blogspot.com/2013/05/brown-creek-noxious-weed-trail-aka-fs.html

HumpnoocheeGirl wrote:
All roads proposed for closure in this watershed will be left passable to wildlife and humans - non motorized. They will mitigate culverts and fill where needed.

That would be "trail conversion".  What USFS proposes in the Wynoochee and did in the Skok is "decommissioning", not trail conversion.  The cost is the same, but what results for hikers is not.

The lesson taught us by dozens of examples across the forest is clear: "decommissioning" leaves impassible ravines.  "Trail conversion" leaves a tread.  The two are completely distinct.

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Ski
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PostSun Oct 28, 2018 2:13 pm 
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no... none of those cited above are the one I'm thinking of, which had several photos of the trail showing the zig-zagging of the tread and the large stumps and logs which had been placed along each side of the trail, forcing the hiker to continually zig and zag up the hill.

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JonnyQuest
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PostSun Oct 28, 2018 2:52 pm 
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Ski wrote:
no... none of those cited above are the one I'm thinking of, which had several photos of the trail showing the zig-zagging of the tread and the large stumps and logs which had been placed along each side of the trail, forcing the hiker to continually zig and zag up the hill.

Maybe not the one you're remembering, but this report from our not-so-happy hiker pretty much fits your description, complete with stump photos and all...
Granite Lakes
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HumpnoocheeGirl
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PostSun Oct 28, 2018 3:25 pm 
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RodF wrote:
What USFS proposes in the Wynoochee and did in the Skok is "decommissioning", not trail conversion.

Hi Rod, I am relaying what the Planning team told us.
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HumpnoocheeGirl
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PostSun Oct 28, 2018 3:30 pm 
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Ski wrote:
none of those cited above are the one I'm thinking of

Ski, is this it?

Pine Lake Trail
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PostSun Oct 28, 2018 3:35 pm 
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That is not the one I am thinking of, but it is the epitome of "what NOT to do" as far as "road to trail" conversion.

Unless I am mistaken, the one I saw was written by a member who was trying to go up the trail on a mountain bike. The trail received the same kind of treatment as those in RR's photos in that report, and apparently it made for great difficulty trying to negotiate the trail on a bike.

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Pyrites
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PostMon Oct 29, 2018 10:52 am 
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After walking what the Canadian Park Service calls fire trails in Jasper I became a big believer in gating roads the day you decide you aren’t going to maintain them. They do log out, and brush some parts. Eventually there are damaged seasonal creek seasons. These could quickly be made usable if need be in the dry of fire season.

What’s different is the whole tread is not rutted up an destroyed by 4WD access when road bed is wet in spring and fall, then down to jeeps, and finally the mudders just destroying the remnants.

Walk away? Decide what to do with culverts and slide areas. Then close it to all.
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HumpnoocheeGirl
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PostMon Oct 29, 2018 11:52 am 
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I disagree with your blanket statement of “then close it to all”.
Now you are shutting out many different recreational users. There is a place for all users to recreate.
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treeswarper
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PostTue Oct 30, 2018 6:20 am 
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RodF wrote:
That would be "trail conversion".  What USFS proposes in the Wynoochee and did in the Skok is "decommissioning", not trail conversion.  The cost is the same, but what results for hikers is not.

This can be true.

What needs to be done is to put what is wanted in the contract.  That will be "down the road" a bit as it sounds like planning is in process.

Depending on who the COR is, and that is also later in the process, one can sometimes get them to work with the contractor to leave a way through the mess.  Not build a trail, but leave space to walk. Sometimes, the elk will pick out and trample a trail through a decommissioning.

One thing that needs to be understood is that a decommissioning project removes fill while removing culverts.  That fill has to go somewhere--and that can be a problem.  It can be trucked to an area where it is not likely to wash away, like an old landing or rockpit, or it can be piled in the right of way of the road being decommissioned.  The latter doesn't mean it is contoured into the hillside, it can be piled--in excavator or dump truck loads on level parts of the old road.  That adds to "the mess.  Places to put the fill are sometimes hard to come by and trucking fill to a waste area is a major expense.

I know the engineer/COR at Randle had a contractor leave the edge of the shoulder of a road being decommissioned clear of debris. I walked it and the elk had already built a "trail" on it and through the fill removals.  I do not know if this was officially in the contract or if it was a later agreement/modification.  Or, and this is not recommended, if it was a wink wink not put in writing agreement.  Anyway, it was done.


A decommission is just that.  The purpose is to make the old road bed stable so the culverts won't wash out and deposit a bunch of sediment in the creeks.  However, I've often wondered about all the sediment washing down the hill right after the decommissioning work is done.  I guess that doesn't matter.  Decommissioning is not for recreation.  It is part of the forest restoration process.

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Forum Index > Stewardship > Wynoochee Restoration & Road Management Project Proposal - Olympic National Forest 09/24/18
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