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DIYSteve
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PostThu Dec 13, 2018 10:47 am 
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rossb wrote:
I was the solo skier on skinny skis.

You did well on those XCD skis. We saw only one sitzmark on our descent.  wink.gif  Fat fishscales were the tool of the day. Ted and I got in some good wiggle turns.
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rossb
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PostThu Dec 13, 2018 11:58 am 
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DIYSteve wrote:
You did well on those XCD skis. We saw only one sitzmark on our descent

Wasn't me man. I didn't fall yesterday. Things were really good as a result of your (and other) fat tracks. I was able to really get moving in the tracks, or occasionally cruise on fresh snow to the outside. It only got a little bit lumpy when I encountered the snowshoe track. At that point I spent much of my time off to the side, but was able to keep moving at a decent clip most of the time (although I imagine you got down much faster).

I'm not sure I would call my gear XCD. The boots are plain Nordic boots (not "Back Country"). They are the same boots I use with my really skinny skis (ones I only use on groomed areas). The skis lack metal edges, and are fairly skinny. But they aren't super skinny (68-58-64). It helps that I know the area really well, and the conditions were great. Otherwise it is a challenge. Lack of brush makes a big difference as well. The close calls yesterday were all due to that (dodging branches is a challenge with gear like that).
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DIYSteve
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PostThu Dec 13, 2018 12:48 pm 
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rossb wrote:
Wasn't me man. I didn't fall yesterday.

Good work on that gear up.gif I kinda though the sitzmark may have been a snowshoer (not kidding)

rossb wrote:
The skis lack metal edges, and are fairly skinny. But they aren't super skinny (68-58-64).

'tweener skis. 68-58-64 is XCD width, although XCD usually has metal edges (a complete non-issue yesterday, but will be after a rain-freeze cycle). IME, boot stiffness is all over the place for different XC norms. For my XC FS road skis (Glittertinds, 55mm waist) I usually use citizen race level skate boots with SNS Pilot bindings, which are stiffer than all but the very stiffest NNN-BC boot/binding combo. Although they are skate boots, they classic stride just fine for bigger XC skis. Some NNN boots are pretty stiff, while some NNN-BC boots are bedroom slippers. One of the stiffer 75mm 3-pin boots may well be the best all-arounder for FS road XC skiing. Sometimes old tech is best.
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rossb
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PostThu Dec 13, 2018 1:19 pm 
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Yeah, it is pretty easy to space out and trip on snow shoes, especially if you are new to the sport. My guess is the snowshoer was, since they turned around in between view spots, and walked right on top of the ski tracks.

Yeah, the gear I was wearing yesterday is a comfortable middle. I love those skis, as they have about as much sidecut as you can find without a metal edge. They are pretty light, and I can drive them easily with my boots, which are more like slippers than a lot of hiking boots I've owned. I wouldn't try and pair those boots with my Atomic Rainiers, for example, as I wouldn't be able to control them. For that I use my NNN-BC boots.

Sticking to the road for Kendall seems like a logical choice for that set of gear (the Rainiers are beefier boots), but I've really moved away from it. It is like a cross bike -- it rarely seems like the right choice (just use a real mountain bike, or a solid road bike). When I do Kendall I always use the gear I had yesterday. It is just a lot more comfortable and lighter. When I do something more demanding (e. g. Paradise, Artist Point, Park Butte) I used to use the Rainiers, but now find that plastic boots are the way to go. They just have so much more control. If the conditions aren't good for Kendall, then I just don't ski it. I'll go to Amabalis, where they almost always groom to the 'Y', and often now groom to the top. Those 'tweener skis (as you call them) work out great for that as well, although I sometimes wish they were faster.
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DIYSteve
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PostThu Dec 13, 2018 1:32 pm 
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rossb wrote:
plastic boots are the way to go

T3, T4, Excursion?
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PostThu Dec 13, 2018 2:15 pm 
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T4 (good guess). I have very touchy feet (as you may remember). I tried on several boots at a store a couple years back, and hated all of them. I figured the heat moldable insert was going to do the trick, and just picked a really light pair (Dynafit TLT 5 or maybe 6). They are wonderful boots; super light, lots of touring flexibility and more control than I need (I'm never going to need a three buckle boot, let alone four). But they just hurt. Even after going to a boot guy, and having them worked on, they hurt. I would rather fall down than do that all day.

Eventually I just gave up for a couple years (and went back to NNN BC for those sorts of trips). I even tried exploring the beefy leather 3 pin approach. The problem is, hardly anyone makes those anymore. A very kind person gave me a pair that were my size that he was just going to give to Goodwill and they had some promise. One boot felt perfect, while the other didn't. My guess is they were simply worked in towards his feet. In any event, I also found that it didn't offer that much more control than my NNN-BC skis (although that was driving bigger skis -- fat Viole fishscales). Finally I decided to try T4s, just because folks said they were on the comfortable/flimsy side of the scale. They are a lot more comfortable than my TLT boots, but that could just be personal fit instead of the extra space for the bellows. I still have problem with one foot fitting just fine, and the other not (which may be the root of my problem). I could keep trying other options, but since each time it involves heating a mold, it is both time consuming and expensive. I did buy these at REI, but even with liberal returns I don't want to make a habit of it. Anyway, long story short I use T4s with Viole Object BC skis and I'm reasonably happy. My feet don't feel great, but they don't feel terrible and I don't fall down. Even when I do things that I wouldn't normally do (things my brother talked me into smile.gif, I didn't fall down). I like the quick transition for a Telemark ski (something I can do while moving) and if I forget while going down it isn't the end of the world (no different than what I've been doing for years). I still can't Telemark well (I just parallel) but ironically I find that skill less necessary on gear like that. Yesterday it would have been nice to nail a Telemark turn or two (I did manage to make a few Telemark-ish turns).

Long answer (I know). Now we won't have anything to talk about when we trim those trees next year smile.gif
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Malachai Constant
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PostThu Dec 13, 2018 8:31 pm 
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True dat, Lynda and I first met on a Mounty ski trip around 81 a low snow year. The leader who is known to all was hit by a huge snow bone that knocked him down and broke his glasses. This was on the area between the lookout and the first lake whic was covered with huge trees.

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Sky Hiker
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PostFri Dec 14, 2018 6:35 am 
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Kudos to the brush cutter much appreciated!!! Most people will either not take the time or are too lazy
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wolffie
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PostFri Dec 14, 2018 10:58 am 
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May I make a suggestion?
I noticed that a lot of short stobs are being left in the middle of the road -- perfect for tripping -- also along the sides.
USFS wants its trail crews to cut brush at ground-level, and not leave stobs.  Ground-level cutting is hard on one's back and on one's tools, but this is only partly for esthetics (stobs being ugly).

A partner once tripped and did a face-plant right on top of a stob.   Unconscious in shock.  We did well with the first-aid -- got her into a sleeping bag, someone made a fire (it was winter), others made hot drinks ("...best thing I ever tasted").  She came to quickly.  Pulled a sharp stick out of the 3/8" gash in the center of her eyebrow.  Couldn't get out until next day.
The E.R. found a 3/4"-long wood sliver deep inside her eye socket.

After the snow melts, if anybody finds a pair of trifocals on the far side of the 2nd lake's outfall, they're mine.
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rossb
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PostFri Dec 14, 2018 12:14 pm 
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When I did the work, I cut as close to the ground as possible. Most of the time this was actually on the ground, but on rare occasions it was a little higher, next to an Evergreen (that wasn't being cut). In the latter case, you couldn't fall on it if you wanted to. It just makes sense to cut as low as possible, given that alders grow so quickly if you don't, and for obvious safety reasons.

The other guy I met was an older gent (in his 80s I believe). He used loppers, as it was the only thing that he felt like he could use. He did leave higher stubs, because it was pretty much all he could do (or felt like he could do). He has been criticized by the other guy he met (I only know of three of us who have done work up there, although there are probably more). That guy basically told him that he should cut to the ground. The older guy's attitude was that he would if he could and that it is better than nothing.

The more I looked at what he had done, the more I agreed with him. Most of the taller stobs were off to the side (well outside of where you would hike or ski/snowshoe). It seems far more likely you would hurt yourself on a naturally occurring broken piece of wood, or get poked in the face while trying to navigate the snarly mess (anyone who has bushwhacked has often kept their sunglasses on for this reason). Furthermore, it was very easy to "mop up" his work. When I encountered those areas, I found that is saved me a lot of time to cut those to the ground, rather than deal with a large, bushy mess that has never been cut. If we had a few more cutters, then there wouldn't be an issue.

If anything, I would say the biggest problem this year is that we didn't trim the very outside trees. It is very easy in the summer to look at the alders that sit outside the road (on the other side of the gully) and think they don't matter. They are well outside of where you would walk or ski. However, when the snow falls, if they are tall enough, they tip over, right onto the path. If you were up there earlier in the year (before they were buried) you encountered this mess. This situation is particularly nasty on skis, as they can create loops, which can snag a ski, forcing the skier to abruptly stop, and tumble forward (or worse). In that case, simply cutting them to four feet or so (comfortable lopping range) would do nicely. Yes, this creates a stob, but one that is difficult to encounter. In winter or summer you would have to climb up to get to it. As with the other stobs, they can also be cut to the ground fairly quickly (a couple hours of work in the fall and I think you could remove all the stobs).
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DIYSteve
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PostFri Dec 14, 2018 6:26 pm 
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rossb wrote:
just picked a really light pair (Dynafit TLT 5 or maybe 6). They are wonderful boots; super light, lots of touring flexibility and more control than I need (I'm never going to need a three buckle boot, let alone four). But they just hurt. Even after going to a boot guy, and having them worked on, they hurt. I would rather fall down than do that all day.

FWIW, TLT5, gen1 TLT6 and gen2 TLT6 fit quite differently. TLT5 was narrow and low volume. gen1 TLT6 was at least 3mm wider last and higher volume. gen2 TLT6 is wider yet. I've heard that TLT7 is considerably higher volume, so much so that they fit sloppy on some TLT5/6 users.

Your best bet might be an AT boot with a moldable shell, like an Atomic Outback.
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Sky Hiker
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PostFri Dec 14, 2018 7:21 pm 
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You guys are pretty good at brushing I have some trails by me that need some work.
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PostFri Dec 14, 2018 10:07 pm 
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It's nice to hear other people call it Kendall Peak Lakes Road too, instead of its FS road #.  smile.gif
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DIYSteve
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PostFri Dec 14, 2018 10:52 pm 
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melc wrote:
instead of its FS road #

Does it still have a FS road number? Or does that go away when the road is decommissioned?
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Sky Hiker
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PostSat Dec 15, 2018 6:04 am 
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Maybe it gets a trail number now
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