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ale_capone
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PostSun Nov 04, 2018 5:40 am 
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DIYSteve wrote:
and skin-by checks every tour

that's the type I meant. should do that every tour!

myself included, but most people should practice with their beacon way more... even quick draw to search mode. if only people could get their beacon out as fast as their cameras!
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Malachai Constant
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PostSun Nov 04, 2018 7:31 am 
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The reason beacons are harder to take out is because otherwise they would separate from a victim in a slide, just sayin. Do not just stick it in your pocket! doh.gif

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ale_capone
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PostSun Nov 04, 2018 8:14 am 
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i use a dedicated pocket for my beacon. with a stouter tether then factory. if my trousers get ripped from my body, I'm fudges anyhow. there is no evidence that your beacon is safer on your torso.

far worse is having a beacon on "Properly" then removing your jacket exposing your harnessed beacon. i never take off my trousers. .. I tour often in my base layer up top though.

my left pocket is my trailing leg, and the least likely spot to get hit. possible to break ribs face planting with a beacon on.

opening and closing my beacon pocket is far easier then opening my coat, then unholstering my beacon, rezipping coat.

wear it however you like, but I think this way is safer, and more efficient.
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RandyHiker
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PostSun Nov 04, 2018 8:26 am 
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Many ski touring pants now feature a beacon pocket, complete with keeper string.

A study by a German researcher found that in 50 years of avalanche incidents in the Alps nobody had ever lost their pants.

I carry my beacon in a zippered pants pocket with a keeper string attached to my belt.  Access and comfort for me is better than using the harness.
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ale_capone
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PostSun Nov 04, 2018 9:15 am 
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not to poo poo on M C.. knowing your beacon, and how to use it far more important..

there are a few thought processes that have change in recent times. where you carry your beacon used to have no wiggle room.

in a jacket pocket would not be ideal...

in a pack? bad idea... get an old piece of recco reflector and put it your pack.

dedicated pants pocket, or traditional harnesses are the only 2 methods I've heard as acceptable.
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Malachai Constant
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PostSun Nov 04, 2018 9:21 am 
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To be precise my post was concerning the suggestion to make your transceiver as accessible as your camera. I carry my camera (an inexpensive waterproof one) in my jacket pocket. I would be sad if I lost it but not devastated. If the one in the pants pocket is teathered that would probably work but forces in a slide are tremendous and just do not want to chance it.

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ale_capone
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PostSun Nov 04, 2018 9:46 am 
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understood.

my reply was inferring an instinctual response to grab a beacon as quick as some are to grab their camera. not to have one as accessible
as... just poking fun really.

my phone/camera/ back up navigation is usually in my pack, or breast pocket..

all alkaline, all the time. smile.gif
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RandyHiker
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PostSun Nov 04, 2018 1:38 pm 
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ale_capone wrote:
in a pack? bad idea... get an old piece of recco reflector and put it your pack.

Do not put a RECCO reflector in a backpack.  You don't want the ski patrol digging up your pack before they dig you up.

FWIW: Very old skool thinking was to shed things like backpacks in slide.  No knowledgeable expert suggests that now as a backpack provides impact protection and by making the skier larger, improves the probability of a less deep burial (whole idea behind air bag packs)
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RandyHiker
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PostSun Nov 04, 2018 1:43 pm 
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Also other electronics need to carried away from the beacon. Opposite side pockets.

Also the beacon pocket should only have the beacon in it, nothing else.  Granola bar / Gue / aluminized milar food wrappers can definitely interfere with the transmitted signal.  They should also be carried on the other side of the body.
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DIYSteve
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PostSun Nov 04, 2018 3:32 pm 
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I carry my beacon in a dedicated pants pocket with a tether. All my ski touring pants have a dedicated beacon pocket. I sewed a tether attachment inside each dedicated pocket.

I used a beacon harness for years until a few years ago when I tripped and fell with a monocular in my shirt pocket, breaking two ribs, while on a high route 2 days of rugged travel away from the nearest trail. After that very painful episode, I stopped carrying anything but soft items on or near my chest.
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ale_capone
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PostMon Nov 05, 2018 4:45 am 
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randy...


recco is not for me, it's for SAR.. search and recovery.... and my loved ones. a passive reflector that never stops working. I dont have much faith, but it's my longshot ticket home in the worse case scenario.

an even bigger longshot would be having a skipatroller nearby. tongue.gif

I have a smaller day pack for lift skiing. no recco.





steve

that sounds like the nightmare I imagine... I did not know you had that happen.

so+1 for chest trauma..



this could be a good spot to insert the classic "depanted dad on the lift" shot from tgr.
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DIYSteve
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PostMon Nov 05, 2018 7:15 am 
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ale_capone wrote:
this could be a good spot to insert the classic "depanted dad on the lift" shot from tgr.

ha ha. I really don't need to see that again.
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RandyHiker
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PostMon Nov 05, 2018 7:47 am 
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ale_capone wrote:
recco is not for me, it's for SAR

I know what RECCO is and I know that RECCO reflectors should only be attached to clothing that will not become separated from the person.  In fact when it first came out one could buy reflectors.  But that is no longer the case as people were doing stuff like gluing them to their skis and ski patrollers were digging up skis before digging up people.  RECCO may only be purchased now built into clothing like jackets and pants.

ale_capone wrote:
this could be a good spot to insert the classic "depanted dad on the lift" shot from tgr.

That shot also appeared on the "Jerry of the day" website.  But note while the "jerry"'s butt was exposed his pants didn't become separated from his person.
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Byeguys
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PostMon Nov 05, 2018 1:59 pm 
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DIYSteve wrote:
Doppelganger wrote:
Since the orientation of the buried beacon is always going to change.  .  .  .

??? Buried victims tend to not move around much.

I wasn't very clear, I meant to say that the orientation of the buried beacon will change for each burial event. Thus, the orientation of the flux lines will be dependent on the beacons position and some variance can be expected?

DIYSteve wrote:
Doppelganger wrote:
.  .  .  just to know what my beacon 'sees' and be better able to determine my position within the flux lines

That's what multi-antenna digital beacons do. Actually seeing the 3 vectors plotted might be fun, but for purposes of searching in a real world burial, the microprocessor in a modern 3 antenna digital beacon can process the information much faster, much more efficiently and much more precisely than the smartest human ever could.

I'd like to see those vectors represented visually in 3D (and real time if possible) someday, not during a real rescue scenario but only to help myself understand how the gear works. If I have an intimate understanding of the transmitting beacon's flux lines and the searching beacon's search results within those lines, I'd like to think my searches would be just a little faster.

I might not be able to think as fast or accurately as the beacon, but I might be able to collate data in ways the beacon cannot.

Edit: somewhere in here there is an augmented reality SAR tool, I know it
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DIYSteve
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PostMon Nov 05, 2018 7:52 pm 
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Doppelganger wrote:
I'd like to see those vectors represented visually in 3D (and real time if possible) someday, not during a real rescue scenario but only to help myself understand how the gear works.

I suppose that'd be interesting but, if it could be done, how would it enhance your understanding more than a instructional schematics like these?


Doppelganger wrote:
If I have an intimate understanding of the transmitting beacon's flux lines and the searching beacon's search results within those lines, I'd like to think my searches would be just a little faster.

I get the benefit of understanding the concept of RF flux lines as general background. But how would the search be faster if you're using a multi-antenna digital beacon (which provides prompts)? What information would justify ignoring or overriding the prompts?

Doppelganger wrote:
I might not be able to think as fast or accurately as the beacon, but I might be able to collate data in ways the beacon cannot.

Sorry, I'm not getting this. What data?
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