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altasnob
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PostThu Oct 25, 2018 12:56 pm 
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Cliff Mass thinks someone making a public records request is "chilling and a not-so-subtle form of harassment."

From his recent blog post:

"Last month, Jesse Piedfort, the Director of the Washington State Chapter of the Sierra Club (which opposed I-732 by the way and a major member of the I-1631 coalition) made a formal public records request to the UW for all my emails dealing with carbon initiatives and all communications with oil companies.  He is going to be disappointed.  I have no email traffic with oil companies and have no relationship with them.  But such requests are chilling and a not-so-subtle form of harassment."

Any email (or text message) sent by any Washington public employee for work purposes is a public record, unless exempt by statute. Making a public records request is permitted by Washington law and doing so is not harassment. This is how investigative journalism is conducted.
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PostThu Oct 25, 2018 1:47 pm 
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thunderhead wrote:
Cliff Mass is a respected member of the scientific + atmospheric physics community

No he's not, he's a hack teacher that wrote a book and thinks his experience is universal. My objections to him DO NOT revolve around his moderate positions, which I specifically said I was not commenting on. My objections to him involve:

1. He's one of those loudmouths that can't deal with being challenged in any meaningful way.
2. People assume he's respected because he's the only weather person they can think of besides Steve Pool. He's super fine with this.
3. He's technically a scientist, so people feel like they can quote him when his ideology lines up with their own without critical thinking. This isn't a good idea and it's how small time hacks become "respected members of the scientific and atmospheric community".
4. Again, he thinks his experience is universal, this is one of those things that really grinds me.
5. He needs to stop being smug about riding his bike. He's not saving the planet, individual contributors aren't the issue here. And that goes for pollution in general not just "climate".
6. He comments on threads about himself, clearly.

edit: before responding, please take a moment to recognize that I dislike and distrust this man for reasons APART from his politics.
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PostThu Oct 25, 2018 1:59 pm 
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cambajamba wrote:
People assume he's respected because he's the only weather person they can think of besides Steve Pool.

Never heard of Cliff Mass until I joined this site.
I always figured Rich Marriot had about the same name recognition as Steve Pool.

The big name around here, of course, was Harry Wappler, for whom they named the ubiquitious Wappler Doppler.

And who can forget the dapper and debonair Beau Brummel himself, Mr. Larry Schick?

dizzy.gif

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PostThu Oct 25, 2018 2:08 pm 
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Quote:
please take a moment to recognize that I dislike and distrust this man for reasons APART from his politics.

OK fair enough.  He does come off a bit raw at times... but there is a lot of opposition to the dude by the political mob, which is pretty unfair for a person thats not an extremist.  Sorry if I singled you out... plenty of other folks here I could have quoted.
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treeswarper
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PostThu Oct 25, 2018 2:47 pm 
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Wellp, here's my decision process:

Yup, I read Cliff Mass.
Then I studied the voter pamphlet.
Then I read up on it at various newspaper sites.
Then I thought about it.
Then I voted.

Too much thinking?  Or do I deserve to be insulted for deciding differently than you?  If it is the latter, I think you have a problem.

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Malachai Constant
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PostThu Oct 25, 2018 4:03 pm 
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If you are talking about media weather men in the northwest few can caimpare with the inimitable Bob Hale the famous cartooning Bob Hale who was replaced by the Devine Bob Cram who was not only on TV but also illustrated Freedom of the Hills, several ski books, and created murals for the infamous Northlake Tavern. Cram also created characters such as Onshore Flo a sultry lonhaired siren, Hi Pressure a fat jovial guy, and Homer Crashenburn a hapless skier.

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fh
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PostFri Oct 26, 2018 6:35 am 
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Another local weatherman from yesteryear was the always entertaining Ray Ramsey (Steve Poole's predecessor).

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/former-komo-weatherman-ray-ramsey-dies-at-87/
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PostFri Oct 26, 2018 8:02 am 
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catsp wrote:
gb wrote:
I think Anne Elk came into this post with an agenda and never was open minded.

I don’t mean to be an Elk defender, but I’m not sure too many posting here have a particularly open mind on the issue.

But she started the thread pretending as if the honorable Cliff Mass was unbiased and also an expert on the subject of how to cut CO2 emissions. His forest fire blog post proved he was not honest and there is no reason to believe he is any kind of an expert on how to cut C02. In the latter regard he is just some other guy.
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gb
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PostFri Oct 26, 2018 8:09 am 
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thunderhead wrote:
Quote:
I don't care how right about the weather my crazy uncles are

Cliff Mass is a respected member of the scientific + atmospheric physics community who more often than not takes a moderate/middle ground political position.  This angers extremists, who generally have no intellectually robust argument of their own, and simply join the howling mobs that have become the face of both sides of the American political spectrum.

It is pathetic and dishonest to a high degree.

Your views of little or no climate change are extremist. You painted yourself with that extremist brush.
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gb
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PostFri Oct 26, 2018 8:16 am 
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Ski wrote:
cambajamba wrote:
People assume he's respected because he's the only weather person they can think of besides Steve Pool.

Never heard of Cliff Mass until I joined this site.
I always figured Rich Marriot had about the same name recognition as Steve Pool.

The big name around here, of course, was Harry Wappler, for whom they named the ubiquitious Wappler Doppler.

And who can forget the dapper and debonair Beau Brummel himself, Mr. Larry Schick?

dizzy.gif

Rich Marriott is a super nice and unassuming fellow and a very good forecaster. He was one of the cofounders of the Northwest Avalanche Center and as such was a very good mountain weather forecaster. I've had interactions with him since about 1980.
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Malachai Constant
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PostFri Oct 26, 2018 9:08 am 
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Seattle was unusual among local TV stations in having male weather readers. Most other markets had “weather girls” usually young and blonde. Note: I have nothing against beautiful blondes as I was once one as are my wife and kids.

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treeswarper
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PostFri Oct 26, 2018 1:54 pm 
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fh wrote:
Another local weatherman from yesteryear was the always entertaining Ray Ramsey (Steve Poole's predecessor).

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/former-komo-weatherman-ray-ramsey-dies-at-87/

There was some weather guy my folks called Hay Head Ray.  I don't think it was that guy because our TV stations were from Spokane.

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Pyrites
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PostFri Oct 26, 2018 3:20 pm 
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altasnob wrote:
Any email (or text message) sent by any Washington public employee for work purposes is a public record, unless exempt by statute. Making a public records request is permitted by Washington law and doing so is not harassment. This is how investigative journalism is conducted.

An unintended, and probably unpreventable effect the public records request statute is that individuals do use it as a method of harassment. It is not uncommon for an aggrieved citizen to make monthly requests of a varied and wide range of documents for several years. It’s not hard for requests to eat up forty hours plus staff time. Waiting for a permit? Sorry, you made top of worklist only to back in the box. A formal records request Always jumps to the top of the work list. That $50/day per document missed is just too dangerous to a budget.

One individual had an odd piece of property, well located, that a city wanted to buy. They had appraisal done, and made offer. Counter offer came back way higher. He came back some time later
and asked city what their next offer was. Answer was price was too high, so they had bought next parcel next door. Done deal.     He was out a couple millions.

Failed lawsuit, thrown out before trial. City maintained no law required them to pay too much for land. I don’t remember if ruling required him to pay city’s legal costs.

Many records requests later he finally figured out he was just going to keep getting a cd with hundreds of PDFs every request, so what. If you don’t plink what good are they?

There is an upside. Requests do force governmental units to vastly improve their document retention including indexing.

Most requests are in fact not done just out of spite. A few are.


Best.

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fairweather friend
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PostFri Oct 26, 2018 4:02 pm 
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I'm a dyed-in-the-wool liberal who hates how these things get so mucked up.  On one hand, I am all in favor of a carbon tax, if such a tax actually worked to reduce the carbon footprint of our state.  OTOH, we already have the most regressive tax system in the US, so adding an additional tax burden to the bottom 90% does not seem like a fair way to levy such a tax.

I have already voted and I voted no.  However, when I read how much money oil companies are spending to defeat this initiative it makes me want to change my vote to a Yes, if only to send a message to the bastards.
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PostFri Oct 26, 2018 7:00 pm 
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"Politics makes strange bedfellows"

- Charles Dudley Warner


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Forum Index > Stewardship > Prof Cliff Mass on Climate Change "control" effort
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