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Anne Elk
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PostFri Oct 26, 2018 8:58 pm 
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What?  All this talk about TV weathermen past and present, and no mention of the dapper Jeff Renner?

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MtnGoat
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PostSat Oct 27, 2018 6:34 pm 
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gb wrote:
But she started the thread pretending as if the honorable Cliff Mass was unbiased and also an expert on the subject of how to cut CO2 emissions. His forest fire blog post proved he was not honest and there is no reason to believe he is any kind of an expert on how to cut C02. In the latter regard he is just some other guy.

Since when is not agreeing with you, evidence of 'pretending'?

Please present the actual evidence you have that she was dishonest. You're accusing this poster of lying. Lacking that evidence, makes you the liar.

You're abusing words for emotional impact. Be accurate when you make arguments, instead of abusive of language and meaning.

If that cripples your arguments, there's a reason.

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MtnGoat
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PostSat Oct 27, 2018 6:35 pm 
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gb wrote:
thunderhead wrote:
Quote:
I don't care how right about the weather my crazy uncles are

Cliff Mass is a respected member of the scientific + atmospheric physics community who more often than not takes a moderate/middle ground political position.  This angers extremists, who generally have no intellectually robust argument of their own, and simply join the howling mobs that have become the face of both sides of the American political spectrum.

It is pathetic and dishonest to a high degree.

Your views of little or no climate change are extremist. You painted yourself with that extremist brush.

It's not 'extreme' to merely note reality, instead of alarmism.

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CC
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PostSun Oct 28, 2018 4:07 pm 
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thunderhead wrote:
Quote:
I don't care how right about the weather my crazy uncles are

Cliff Mass is a respected member of the scientific + atmospheric physics community who more often than not takes a moderate/middle ground political position.  This angers extremists, who generally have no intellectually robust argument of their own, and simply join the howling mobs that have become the face of both sides of the American political spectrum.

It is pathetic and dishonest to a high degree.

In today's Seattle Times there is an ad listing some scientists supporting 1631.  Of the 20 faculty of UW Atmospheric Sciences Dept., only 3 besides Cliff Massmedia are not listed in ad.

BTW,  Anne Elk died in 1542. The OP, Anne so-called Elk, is in fact Ronald Higgins, a professional Anne Elk impersonator.

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Anne Elk
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PostSun Oct 28, 2018 4:25 pm 
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CC wrote:
BTW,  Anne Elk died in 1542. The OP, Anne so-called Elk, is in fact Ronald Higgins, a professional Anne Elk impersonator.

Never heard of that 16th century AE.  Don't know who the Higgins fellow is you're referring to; the only person I know who does a very bad imitation of me is John Cleeseclown.gif

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Brushwork
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Know your complex
PostSun Oct 28, 2018 7:32 pm 
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CC wrote:
BTW,† Anne Elk died in 1542. The OP, Anne so-called Elk, is in fact Ronald Higgins, a professional Anne Elk impersonator.

I doubt it.

Extremely unlikely a man would have shared the pm she shared with me.

Extremely.

When you accuse someone of being an imposter, might want to check it out first.

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CC
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cascade curmudgeon
PostSun Oct 28, 2018 8:37 pm 
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Anne Elk wrote:
CC wrote:
BTW,  Anne Elk died in 1542. The OP, Anne so-called Elk, is in fact Ronald Higgins, a professional Anne Elk impersonator.

Never heard of that 16th century AE.  Don't know who the Higgins fellow is you're referring to; the only person I know who does a very bad imitation of me is John Cleeseclown.gif

Sorry.  I had you confused with Cardinal Richelieu.

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gb
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PostMon Oct 29, 2018 6:43 am 
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MtnGoat wrote:
gb wrote:
thunderhead wrote:
Quote:
I don't care how right about the weather my crazy uncles are

Cliff Mass is a respected member of the scientific + atmospheric physics community who more often than not takes a moderate/middle ground political position.  This angers extremists, who generally have no intellectually robust argument of their own, and simply join the howling mobs that have become the face of both sides of the American political spectrum.

It is pathetic and dishonest to a high degree.

Your views of little or no climate change are extremist. You painted yourself with that extremist brush.

It's not 'extreme' to merely note reality, instead of alarmism.

Your views are extreme. Despite oil company propaganda (re: Exxon) the vast majority believe that Global warming is real and happening now. 97% of Climate/Meteorologist scientists and especially those that have published papers believe it is real and happening now. You would have to be very ignorant not to see the effects statistically or otherwise. The word "alarmist" is a buzzword propagated by those with an agenda to keep burning fossil fuels at an unsustainable rate. The alarmists are those trying to hit the brakes on public awareness of the effects of Global Warming. You are an alarmist.
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PostMon Oct 29, 2018 7:14 am 
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gb is indeed a howling extremist that jumps from "the planet is warming" to "omg we are all going to die and every gust of wind or rainshower is proof!" without any actual physical or statistical evidence.
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thunderhead
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PostMon Oct 29, 2018 7:21 am 
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Quote:
Of the 20 faculty of UW Atmospheric Sciences Dept., only 3 besides Cliff Massmedia are not listed in ad.

Only 4 out of 20 taking a stand against higher taxes and bureaucratic bloat.  Sad frown.gif   I guess its hard to vote against self interest and increased AS funding...


At least there is some dissent.
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coldrain108
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PostMon Oct 29, 2018 9:30 am 
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interesting that the big oil companies tout that they will re-coup their losses by upping prices on the little guys (the main theme of anti ads) but they still find in necessary to dump 10's of millions into defeating this initiative...why?

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"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch and do nothing"  - Albert Einstein
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Anne Elk
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PostMon Oct 29, 2018 10:37 am 
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gb wrote:
Your views are extreme. Despite oil company propaganda (re: Exxon) the vast majority believe that Global warming is real and happening now. 97% of Climate/Meteorologist scientists and especially those that have published papers believe it is real and happening now.

We're drifting ... that's not the topic of this thread; it's whether this initiative is crafted reasonably in all its details, especially who's really going to pay, and if the plan for the $ makes sense.  It's clear from the posts in this thread climate change believers are as far apart on analysis of this initiative as CC believers are from CC deniers. One thing for sure, I'm amazed at the number of people in this state who are willing to tax themselves and throw money at a problem no matter how poorly thought-out the details.  ("It's better than going back to the drawing board".)  Many of us in Seattle are tapped out with this approach, it's the standard m.o. of our municipal gov't.

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MtnGoat
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PostMon Oct 29, 2018 10:52 am 
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gb wrote:
Your views are extreme. Despite oil company propaganda (re: Exxon) the vast majority believe that Global warming is real and happening now. 97% of Climate/Meteorologist scientists and especially those that have published papers believe it is real and happening now. You would have to be very ignorant not to see the effects statistically or otherwise. The word "alarmist" is a buzzword propagated by those with an agenda to keep burning fossil fuels at an unsustainable rate. The alarmists are those trying to hit the brakes on public awareness of the effects of Global Warming. You are an alarmist.

What the 'vast majority' believe has no more empirical value than an assertion that a position you disagree with is 'extreme'. "Social" metrics, are not science.

Neither I nor anyone else has ever denied that climate changes, or that it is changing. Your fully intentional misrepresentation of views on this, is merely part of the continual rain of weak arguments.

You evade and talk around your intentional abuse of other posters by using words meaning they are liars. You don't want to address this because it's true, so I get your ire now. Which is great...the ire of folks who can't defend their arguments without logical fallacy and 'social' metrics is to be expected.

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MtnGoat
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PostMon Oct 29, 2018 10:55 am 
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Anne Elk wrote:
We're drifting ... that's not the topic of this thread; it's whether this initiative is crafted reasonably in all its details, especially who's really going to pay, and if the plan for the $ makes sense.  It's clear from the posts in this thread climate change believers are as far apart on analysis of this initiative as CC believers are from CC deniers. One thing for sure, I'm amazed at the number of people in this state who are willing to tax themselves and throw money at a problem no matter how poorly thought-out the details.  ("It's better than going back to the drawing board".)  Many of us in Seattle are tapped out with this approach, it's the standard m.o. of our municipal gov't.

Substituting emotion backing 'do something' approaches for valid, logically self consistent actions yielding measurable results, instead of actions containing red flags galore and blatant inverted incentives and fiefdom building funding, is something very difficult for many humans to get past. Caring so so much you go beyond caring if what you're doing actually works, is rampant.

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MtnGoat
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PostMon Oct 29, 2018 11:00 am 
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coldrain108 wrote:
interesting that the big oil companies tout that they will re-coup their losses by upping prices on the little guys (the main theme of anti ads) but they still find in necessary to dump 10's of millions into defeating this initiative...why?

You get make more money from lower prices and higher volume. There's no conundrum here.

Oil companies do not have a money pot hidden somewhere. Unlike another entity, they cannot simply print money. They get their money from trading with their customers, and if additional costs are imposed upon them, their sole source of revenue to pay those cost...is the customer.

Why it matters where the money to pay higher costs comes from, when the entire point of the law is to intentionally harm the finances of their customers enough to force them to do what they won't choose on their own, is a mystery.

Keep your eye on the ball...for all the words, for all the excuses..the *goal* to to *intentionally* make the little people pay more so they'll be forced to do what the initiatives supporters want them to do. It *has* to hurt the little people financially, that is the intent.

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