Forum Index > Stewardship > Mountain Goats relocated from ONP show up at Rattlesnake Ledge
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RandyHiker
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PostFri Oct 19, 2018 1:48 pm 
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This cracks me up.

https://www.kiro7.com/news/eastside-news/relocated-mountain-goats-spotted-in-rattlesnake-ledge-sparking-concerns-for-hikers/855629934
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Ski
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PostFri Oct 19, 2018 2:17 pm 
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Let's hope there are lots of rocks along the trail on Rattlesnake Ledge! wink.gif

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Windstorm
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PostFri Oct 19, 2018 2:52 pm 
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The funny thing is that aside from the weekend the goats were released, I haven't heard of any other sightings at Rattlesnake. And according to another news article I saw, the one that was spotted at Rattlesnake had moved out to the McClellan Butte area within a day or two (and is probably spreading the word to avoid Rattlesnake at all costs).
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treeswarper
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PostFri Oct 19, 2018 3:48 pm 
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Can we send some wolf packs to that area?

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RandyHiker
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PostFri Oct 19, 2018 5:38 pm 
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Windstorm wrote:
(and is probably spreading the word to avoid Rattlesnake at all costs

I agree that goats travel large distances easily.

At least one of the justifications for relocating the goats from ONP was they had become habituated to people and would "stalk" them to slurp up human urine ( salt ) when released.

This sort of goat behavior is also observed in the Enchantments, The Robin's, etc to the degree that the USFS posts instructions to avoid urinating on vegetation and urinate on rocks or into rock crevices to avoid the goats chewing up heather and other vegetation in pursuit of salt.

The Rattlesnake area seems like a happy hunting ground for salt collection.
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coldrain108
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PostSat Oct 20, 2018 2:48 pm 
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This is what happens when one takes a leak on the vegetation when goats are hunting pee. 

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Malachai Constant
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PostSat Oct 20, 2018 3:44 pm 
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I do not want to be an old sourpuss but bullets would have been a lot easier and cheaper.

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RandyHiker
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PostSat Oct 20, 2018 4:19 pm 
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Malachai Constant wrote:
I do not want to be an old sourpuss but bullets would have been a lot easier and cheaper.

Indeed -- mountain goat hunting is legal in Washington.  It's hard for me to believe that relocating these goats from ONP was less administrative overhead and cost than permitting an "open season" on goat hunting -- or even offering a bounty on goats in ONP.

I think that political considerations were given priority over figuring out the most effective way to eradicate goats from ONP.

I suspect that a decade from now there will still be plenty of goats in ONP, despite the relocation effort.
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RodF
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PostSat Oct 20, 2018 5:01 pm 
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Mtn Goat Mgmt Plan alternative C (just shoot them all) would've taken 1/3 the helicopter time and cost, fewer than 1/10 the number of heli landings within wilderness (and none of the translocation and vet costs), but was rejected.

This violates The Wilderness Act's prohibition of all but the minimum necessary use of motorized vehicles (helicopter).

RandyHiker wrote:
I think that political considerations were given priority over figuring out the most effective way to eradicate goats from ONP.

Apparently.  Obviously.

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PostSat Oct 20, 2018 7:28 pm 
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Malachai Constant wrote:
I do not want to be an old sourpuss but bullets would have been a lot easier and cheaper.

^ This plan of action has been supported for decades by a good many people, but they didn't cry and whine as loud as the "animal rights" whackos.

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catsp
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PostSun Oct 21, 2018 9:15 am 
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7. Why doesn’t the park just allow public hunting of the goats?

Hunting is illegal in Olympic National Park and allowing public hunting of goats would require Congressional action to change federal law. Doing so would represent a major change to longstanding policy regarding hunting in national parks.
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RandyHiker
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PostSun Oct 21, 2018 9:30 am 
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catsp wrote:
would require Congressional action

I believe that goat hunting could be authorized by the  secretary of the interior without Congressional approval.  Hunting is allowed in a number of national parks.

https://www.doi.gov/blog/hunting-and-fishing-national-parks-and-fish-and-wildlife-refuges
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catsp
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PostSun Oct 21, 2018 9:40 am 
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I don't personally know.  Was quoting the ONP Mountain Goat Management Plan/FEIS FAQs.

17. What is the purpose of relocating goats to the Cascades?

The objective of translocating mountain goats from the Olympic Peninsula to selected areas within the North Cascades forests is to bolster the native population, particularly in regions where habitat appears adequate but native populations have remained low even after hunting was reduced. The long-term goal is to provide demographic and genetic connectivity, such that the North Cascades forests will support close to the number of goats controlled by its habitat capability.
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contour5
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PostSun Oct 21, 2018 10:07 am 
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I suppose it’s already too late, but maybe next time we can skip the guns and the helicopters and just drop off a few lumps of salt.
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catsp
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PostSun Oct 21, 2018 10:26 am 
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6. Why can’t the park use salt blocks for long-term management?

Placing salt blocks strategically to attract mountain goats away from areas of high visitor use or sensitive habitats would not meet the plan/EIS objectives. Mountain goats would continue to impact natural resources and human safety in the park.
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