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treeswarper
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Alleged Sockpuppet!
PostTue Oct 23, 2018 1:46 pm 
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Ummm, pie.  I made one the other day out of frozen apple slices.  It WAS good....mmmmm.

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What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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rossb
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PostTue Oct 23, 2018 2:39 pm 
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Overall, I would say this is a huge success. I get why some people wanted to just shoot them, but keep in mind, this is happening. Fairly soon, the goats will be gone. Part of the reason for this is that they found a nice compromise. If they had just shot them, it is highly likely that someone would have filed suit. All it takes is folks to lawyer up, and next thing you know you, they spend years in court, spending millions of dollars, and still have the same problem. Just look up "Burke Gilman Missing Link" if you doubt me. It is just a tiny bit of road (or bike path, if you will) yet fighting over it has dragged out for years. The city has spent more money in court (or writing and rewriting their planning documents) than they ever will actually building the thing. It wouldn't have shocked me if that is the way the big goat kill would have gone down, if they went that direction.

But they didn't. They made it clear that they would kill some goats, but first they would haul as many out as they can. This made it clear to goat fans everywhere that this was as good as it was going to get -- either they accept this, or the next plan is to shoot them all.

Meanwhile, we are actually increasing genetic diversity of the goat population in the Cascades. I would consider this to be a very good thing. Does anyone know of a cheaper way to do that? Yeah, I thought so.

Overall this has been successful. The goats are being removed from a place they never should been at, genetic diversity in the goat population of the Cascades will improve, and we get to see pictures of goats flying around.

This is a way better than the stupid Green Mountain Lookout fiasco, where huge sums of money was spent to rebuild a structure that is less natural than the Olympic goats, and blocks the views from the top.
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Wolfish
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PostWed Oct 24, 2018 7:14 pm 
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Agree thoroughly with rossb.  The 1995 ONP Goat Management Plan Draft EIS is a case study for lethal removal.  Not only was it not the selected option for the final plan, there was no final plan.  The entire effort was shut down.  Nor was there any action on non-native goats for the next two decades.

The current plan resulted in 115 goats gone on the first take.  That's a significant bite out of the population, with more to follow, and shooting still in the mix.  I'll support whatever it takes to get rid of Olympic's goats, and this is what it took.
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Ski
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PostWed Oct 24, 2018 8:38 pm 
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Wolfish, commenting about a previous goat removal effort wrote:
"...The entire effort was shut down...."

The entire effort was shut down because they dropped a few goats off some cliffs that fell to their deaths (bad optics) and damn near lost a helicopter and crew up on the ridge above the Quinault.

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flatsqwerl
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PostTue Oct 30, 2018 4:49 pm 
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Ski, in regards to your Wapato lake comment: I used to walk the lake daily from 2009-2013. The goose poo made the grass areas a minefield. Then, one day I was walking and noticed a guy with trained dogs in life vests. He was sending them out on the lake to scare the geese. He was hired by the city ( I assume ).  It worked. After that, I do not recall seeing him and his dogs, but the geese population and the poo was greatly reduced. Nice solution.
I have not walked there in several years so I do not know if the goose poo deal is still fixed.
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treeswarper
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Alleged Sockpuppet!
PostTue Oct 30, 2018 5:03 pm 
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That would be the dream job for the hyper bird dogs of the world.

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Ski
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PostTue Oct 30, 2018 6:39 pm 
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flatsqwerl - I believe it was a combination of spraying eggs, citing those who were feeding the geese, and harassing the geese that got things under control.
I know that the City (and MetroParks Tacoma) had their phones ringing off the hook for a while when the locals finally had enough and really started raising hell about it.

Unfortunately, they'll never be able to restore the water quality in the lake, as it is effectively the detention pond for all of the municipal stormwater runoff from the north end of the lake (at about South 56th Street) all the way up to South 38th Street, and from Tacoma Mall Boulevard (on the west side of I-5) all the way over to about South Yakima - that's a lot of urban runoff - a lot of ethylene glycol antifreeze; motor oil; transmission fluid; power steering fluid; brake fluid; hydraulic fluid; plus any other crap people pour out in back alleys and down storm drains (like paint thinner; solvents; detergents; etc.) Add to that the runoff from residential lawn-care products, and it's a toxic soup.
IF Oscar Hokold hadn't filled in "Little Wapato Lake" (refer to early archival topographical maps) - which was on the south side of South 72nd Street - in about 1962 when he first began construction of the housing development then known as "Lakeshore Estates", there would still be an outlet for the lake and it would have retained some of its capacity for flushing itself. ("Little Wapato Lake" was immediately west and immediately north of the parcel I grew up on.)
Currently MetroParks Tacoma and the City have plumbed the south end of the lake through a pipeline over to Wards Lake (2716 So. 84th St.), which has to some degree mitigated that issue, although it lacks the capacity to process the runoff coming in from upstream effectively.

Sorry about the thread drift. I may have posted all this stuff before - I can't remember right now.
I find it sad that the largest lake in the City of Tacoma was effectively turned into a cesspool because of shortsightedness and poor planning. We used to walk down there and swim when we were kids, up until about 1965-1966, when all the neighbor kids started breaking out in weird skin rashes and sufferering from ear infections.
Effectively fixing the problem would cost billions of dollars, and nobody really gives a damn about South Tacoma.

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I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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flatsqwerl
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PostTue Oct 30, 2018 6:57 pm 
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Ski, I can see you are in a peppy mood so here is another uplifting comment: They have put in an excellent new steel/concrete bridge over lower Swan Creek.
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Ski
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PostTue Oct 30, 2018 10:02 pm 
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Oh lovely. Just what we needed.

How much graffiti is on it already?  rant.gif

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"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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flatsqwerl
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PostTue Oct 30, 2018 10:37 pm 
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Haha! Its still in its virgin state along with the carefully planted native plants nearby in orderly rows.
my real curiosity is how will the community will treat the new shiny eastside community center on Portland/s56th.
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Jaberwock
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PostThu Nov 22, 2018 9:24 pm 
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So did they get all of them out of the Olympics yet? Or do they have to finish next summer?
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RodF
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PostFri Nov 23, 2018 1:34 pm 
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Jaberwock wrote:
So did they get all of them out of the Olympics yet? Or do they have to finish next summer?

In short: no, and they will continue but won't finish next summer.

In 2018, a total of 114 the estimated 725 mountain goats in Olympic were captured, according to the Park's press release.  30 males and 68 females were translocated to the North Cascades, and 11 died occurred during capture or transport.

The goal is to capture about half the goats in Olympic, or 325 to 375 goats.  This will continue through 2019 and likely into 2020.  The rate of capture is expected to slow as the remaining goats learn to become more elusive and difficult to capture. 

The remaining half of the goats are to be shot in the final 3 years of the plan (2020-22), assuming additional funding is secured to complete it. 

The plan's goal is to reduce the goat population by about 90%.   "The remaining 10 percent would be addressed through ongoing maintenance activities which would involve opportunistic ground- and helicopter-based lethal removal of mountain goats" in future years beyond 2022.

The entire Olympic goat population was established by releasing only 11 goats in 1926.  It is not clear it will be possible to find the last few dozen and completely eradicate them.

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Jaberwock
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PostFri Nov 23, 2018 4:31 pm 
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Thanks for the summary Rod!
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Bernardo
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PostSat Nov 24, 2018 6:23 am 
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Sounds like this could end up not working.   Rossb's earlier comments about finding a compromise that would work was encouraging, but now it seems after the first phase of transfers has occurred it's possible a judge could decide to stop "Phase B." 

Phase B has a sort of dramatic flair to it as in: he was taking a cut on the side, so the mob boss ordered he be phase b'ed.   

There is also the uncertainty regarding future funding. 

Assuming the park is relentless in pursuing the goats, it would be a strange world for them as only the most fearful and elusive survived and any time the population became noticeable, it was quickly cut back.

Will cougars eat some of the relocated goats?  Seems like a much more formidable quarry than deer.
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Ski
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PostThu Jul 23, 2020 12:31 pm 
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Wednesday July 22 2020 10:08 PDT

NPS - USFS - WDFW NEWS RELEASE

Agencies to begin fourth and final round of translocating mountain goats from the Olympics to the Cascades


Starting July 27, a coalition of state and federal agencies, with support from local tribes, will begin the fourth and final two-week round of translocating mountain goats from Olympic National Park and Olympic National Forest to the northern Cascade Mountains to meet wildlife management goals in all three areas. Since September 2018, 275 mountain goats have been translocated.

This effort is a partnership between the National Park Service (NPS), the Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife (WDFW), and the USDA Forest Service (USFS) to re-establish and assist in connecting depleted populations of mountain goats in the Washington Cascades while also removing non-native goats from the Olympic Mountains.  Mountain goats were introduced to the Olympics in the 1920s.

WDFW plans to release the mountain goats at 12 sites in the North Cascades national forests this round.  Nine sites are in the Darrington, Preacher Mountain, Mt. Loop Highway, and Snoqualmie Pass areas of the Mt. Baker-Snoqualmie National Forest. Three release sites are in the Chikamin Ridge, Box Canyon, and Tower Mountain areas of Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest.

“A project of this magnitude would be impossible without our partner agencies and the expertise and cooperation of hundreds of people,” said Olympic National Park Wildlife Branch Chief Dr. Patti Happe.  “Because of this expertise and cooperation throughout the project, we anticipate reaching our objectives for capture and translocation in this final round.”

At the start of the translocation effort in 2018, the population of mountain goats was estimated at 725. Based on past removal efforts, it was estimated that approximately 50% of the mountain goat population, or 325-375 animals, could be safely captured over a total of four, two-week periods. To date, 275 mountain goats have been captured and translocated with a grand total of 326 removed from the population on the Olympic Peninsula.

Total Mountain Goats Removed 326
Translocated to Cascades 275
Transferred to Zoo 16
Capture Mortalities 18
Euthanized 6
Transport Mortalities 3
Lethally Removed 8

Lethal removal will begin in fall 2020 after this final round of capture and translocation.

Trail Impacts and Road Closures

The staging area for the mountain goat capture operation is located beyond the Hurricane Ridge Visitor Center in Olympic National Park along Hurricane Hill Road and is closed to public access.

Hurricane Hill Road is closed completely beyond the Hurricane Ridge Visitor Center through August 9 for mobilization, capture operations, and demobilization. This closure includes the Hurricane Hill Trail, Little River Trail, and Wolf Creek Trail. Hurricane Ridge Road and all other area trails remain open. A map of the area trails is available on the project website at nps.gov/olym/planyourvisit/mountain-goat-capture-and-translocation.htm.

No other closures will be in place for this project in Olympic National Park or the national forests.

Project Background

In May 2018, the NPS released the final Mountain Goat Management Plan which outlined the effort to remove mountain goats on the Olympic Peninsula. Both the plan and the associated environmental impact statement were finalized after an extensive public review process which began in 2014.

“The mountain goat relocations not only augment resident populations, increasing population viability, but tracking the collared goats assists with our understanding of goats use of the habitat within the North Cascades” said Phyllis Reed, USFS Wildlife Biologist.

While some mountain goat populations in the north Cascades have recovered since the 1990s, the species is still absent from many areas of its historic range.

Aerial capture operations are conducted through a contract with Leading Edge Aviation, a private company that specializes in the capture and transport of wild animals. The helicopter crew uses immobilizing darts and net guns to capture mountain goats and transport them in specially-made slings to the staging areas.

The animals are cared for by veterinarians before WDFW wildlife managers transport them to staging areas in the north Cascades for release. To maximize success, goats are airlifted in their crates by helicopter directly to alpine habitats that have been selected for appropriate characteristics.

Mountain goats follow and approach hikers because they are attracted to the salt from their sweat, urine, and food.  “The north Cascades is a vast landscape, that is less population-dense than Olympic National Park,”  said Will Moore, a WDFW wildlife manager who specializes in mountain goats.

“We also know that the Cascades have natural salt licks, that mountain goats depend on,” added Moore. “Because of this, they won’t rely as much on humans to provide their salt fix.”

Area tribes that have supported the translocation plan in the Cascades include the Lummi, Muckleshoot, Sauk-Suiattle, Stillaguamish, Suquamish, Swinomish, Tulalip, and Upper Skagit tribes. Volunteers from the Lower Elwha Klallam Tribe, Point No Point Treaty Council, Quileute Tribe, Quinault Indian Nation, Skokomish Indian Tribe, and Port Gamble S’Klallam Tribe have assisted with past operations at the staging areas in the Olympics.

For more information about mountain goats in Washington State, see WDFW’s website at wdfw.wa.gov/species-habitats/species/oreamnos-americanus.

For more information and updates on the project, visit nps.gov/olym/planyourvisit/mountain-goat-capture-and-translocation.htm

- NPS - USFS - WDFW -

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"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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