Forum Index > Stewardship > Who gets to use the Teanaway Valley?
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RandyHiker
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PostTue Nov 06, 2018 7:20 am 
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treeswarper wrote:
And here is one of the big problems that stimulates the Cascade Curtain discussion.  Where is the popcorn emoticon? 

I'm very familiar with that discussion as well as the Freedom and Cedar county proposals. 

Those proposals never go anywhere, nor do they ever go away.    However when taxpayers in those areas look at the details.  They find that their tax burden will increase significantly. 

In terms of the Teanaway community forest, the funds to purchase the private land came from the state with approval from the legislature.

King county provides 40+% of state tax revenue and receives about 29% of state expenditures.

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/politicsnorthwest/2013/05/06/state-analysis-shows-king-county-pays-more-in-taxes-than-it-gets/

So again what exactly do you find unjust about King county's influence on state politics? The people or the taxes from King county?
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Kim Brown
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PostTue Nov 06, 2018 10:11 am 
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RandyHiker wrote:
If not guided by the principle of "one person, one vote"  What is your concept of fair representation?

Not exactly relevant in the case of public comments for public lands. DNR has a mission, and WDFW has a mission. As does the Yakima Basin plan that gave rise to this Community Forest. I think most people, including me, forget about the goals. And the confusion might be that what we’re commenting on is the Recreation Plan only, not the overall plan. For that, you’d have to read up on the Integrated Yakima Basin Plan (yawn).

Regarding one person, one vote - I think that if 51% of comments were to bring in more motorized trails, it still wouldn’t go – according to the document, the local landowners concerns are one of the concerns that pushed motorized use expansion off the plate,; another is that the land managers don’t have the capacity to properly deal with watershed protection in regards to motorized use.

Protecting the watershed and keeping water healthy and safe for crops is the overarching goal of the Community Forest. And to support local communities (I don’t know the definition of “local community,” but I assume it means the immediate surrounding physical community. I don’t know though)

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" I'm really happy about this! … I have very strong good and horrible memories up there."  – oldgranola, NWH’s outdoors advocate.
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treeswarper
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PostTue Nov 06, 2018 10:43 am 
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RandyHiker wrote:
http://blogs.seattletimes.com/politicsnorthwest/2013/05/06/state-analysis-shows-king-county-pays-more-in-taxes-than-it-gets/So again what exactly do you find unjust about King county's influence on state politics? The people or the taxes from King county?

We've been over and over and over....on this topic.  The west side of the state is over populated and passes laws/rules to deal with their problems.  They tend to go state wide with the laws, and we over here do not have the same problems.  You wanna see wolves?  Then dump them on your side, closer to your homes.  The same goes with grizzlies. 

But, I've come to realize that the ONLY THING IMPORTANT IN THE U.S. IS HOW MUCH MONEY YOU HAVE.   You've shoved that fact down our throats quite a bit.  And, by doing so, you feed the conspiracy theory tin hat crowd about UN Agenda 21?  or whatever it is.  Hell, one of our county commissioners, who I suspect will be re-elected believes in that crap.  You feed it.  Got it yet? 

Like I wrote earlier, Kittitas County, and I will add Chelan County are becoming King County what with the Seattle folks running away.  So, you've now got people who paid taxes in King County moving here.  Does that make them worthless freeloaders also?  Quit throwing figures around and think of the other effects.  And no, I don't support making another state simply because it is the "good old boys" who are favoring it who have another agenda on their minds.

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What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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MtnGoat
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PostTue Nov 06, 2018 10:59 am 
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The places being fled to are what they are because of ideas present, and not present, there. Bring the ideas making Pugetopolis a place to flee from, to the places fled to...and simply repeat turning the new place, into a future place to flee from.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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RandyHiker
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PostTue Nov 06, 2018 11:07 am 
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MtnGoat wrote:
Pugetopolis a place to flee from

Funny idea, completely disconnected from facts on the ground.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/114000-more-people-seattle-now-this-decades-fastest-growing-big-city-in-all-of-united-states/
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DigitalJanitor
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PostTue Nov 06, 2018 11:18 am 
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Kim Brown wrote:
Protecting the watershed and keeping water healthy and safe for crops is the overarching goal of the Community Forest.

The tribes + big ag from down in Yakima made this happen, and they WILL dictate certain terms. They've got the legal and monetary firepower to back it up.

Again, I'm not against motos by any means, but I wish those pushing for expansion of motorized access would own up to the fact that it brings a whole host of extra land management concerns. Especially once you get beyond 2 wheels, the potential amount of garbage and damage just seems to shoot through the roof. And then there's the extra enforcement requirements that everyone gets to pay for....

It's heck of a lot easier to just say no and only open areas to non motorized rec. So if the moto guys want some, logic would suggest they'd better come with solid solutions for sorting all that right out of the gate. I *hope* they did, but in my few distant observations it just seemed like a lot of table pounding. That's not going to solve the management issues unfortunately.

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MtnGoat
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PostTue Nov 06, 2018 11:43 am 
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RandyHiker wrote:
Funny idea, completely disconnected from facts on the ground.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/114000-more-people-seattle-now-this-decades-fastest-growing-big-city-in-all-of-united-states/

There's only one problem. Your argument does not falsify my statement, because they are not in conflict. Both can be true.

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RandyHiker
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PostTue Nov 06, 2018 12:16 pm 
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MtnGoat wrote:
RandyHiker wrote:
Funny idea, completely disconnected from facts on the ground.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/114000-more-people-seattle-now-this-decades-fastest-growing-big-city-in-all-of-united-states/

There's only one problem. Your argument does not falsify my statement, because they are not in conflict. Both can be true.

Sure, I think a more accurate assessment is that the boundaries of Pugetpopolis continue to expand and the boundaries are now spilling over the Cascade Crest.  E.g. when I was working in Redmond one teammate lived in an Alpental condo and another lived in Cle Elum.  On that same team was also a guy living on Whidbey Island.
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tod701
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PostWed Nov 07, 2018 7:50 am 
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DigitalJanitor wrote:
It's heck of a lot easier to just say no and only open areas to non motorized rec. So if the moto guys want some, logic would suggest they'd better come with solid solutions for sorting all that right out of the gate. I *hope* they did, but in my few distant observations it just seemed like a lot of table pounding. That's not going to solve the management issues unfortunately.

Mike Reimer represented two wheeled motorized users and brought specific solutions including labor and funding sources but way shouted down for presenting unwelcome ideas regardless of feasibility or reasonableness.

Input was a mere formality since the outcome was predetermined.
There was zero good faith discussion.

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MesiJezi
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PostTue Dec 04, 2018 3:35 pm 
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RandyHiker wrote:
Funny idea, completely disconnected from facts on the ground.

This is a case where both can be true. Seattle may be one of the fastest growing large cities, but Kittitas County is one of the fastest growing counties in the nation as well, per census.gov. Part of the reason for that is people fleeing King County, like my wife and I did last year. This is my 5th non-consecutive year living in Kittitas County.

I'm a frequent non-motorized user (two legs, two wheels, two skis) of the Teanaway, and do not find the current motorized usage to be a bother. The ones I have crossed paths with have been friendly and respectful.

I'm curious, how many of the contributors to this thread even live in this county and use this land? Or even live downstream of it, for that matter?
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Kim Brown
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PostTue Dec 04, 2018 4:16 pm 
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MesiJezi wrote:
I'm curious, how many of the contributors to this thread even live in this county and use this land? Or even live downstream of it, for that matter?

Why do you ask?

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MesiJezi
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PostTue Dec 04, 2018 10:20 pm 
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Kim Brown wrote:
Why do you ask?

To put it simply, it's a "community forest," and as the ones who stand to gain/lose the most due to decisions made about the forest, the local community members voices need to be taken in to careful consideration regarding changes to policy.

I would be more interested in hearing from people who live in Cle Elum, Thorp, or Ellensburg than folks from say, Tenino or Bellingham.
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DIYSteve
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PostWed Dec 05, 2018 6:47 am 
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MesiJezi wrote:
I would be more interested in hearing from people who live in Cle Elum, Thorp, or Ellensburg

You'll get a range of views, just as you would from W-siders.
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RandyHiker
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PostWed Dec 05, 2018 7:03 am 
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MesiJezi wrote:
Part of the reason for that is people fleeing King County

Moving over Snoqualmie Pass to Cle Elum is IMHO "moving to the suburbs" of Seattle.    If you really want to escape "Puget Sound City"  I think Kittitas county isn't far enough away.
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DIYSteve
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PostWed Dec 05, 2018 8:42 am 
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RandyHiker wrote:
If you really want to escape "Puget Sound City"  I think Kittitas county isn't far enough away.

Well, it's only been 25 months, but IME living in Eburg aint anything close to living in the Seattle burbs. I can't imagine how anyone could think such a thing.
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