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Chief Joseph
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PostThu Nov 01, 2018 1:43 pm 
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Due to the injuries of Steve, Shroder, myself and others I thought it might be a good idea to start a thread to discuss injuries, treatment, recovery and to share ideas and experiences as to what has helped in recovery and pain management. I don't like to take pills( I do when pain is extreme) but prefer to explore natural remedies when applicable.

Years ago, prior to my first knee surgery a co-worker recommended drinking aloe vera jell, and it did seem to have a positive effect. I have been using a bit of tumeric which is supposed to help with pain (haven't notice a benefit yet). I have found some relief and help with sleep during my injury by taking muscle relaxers, they actually seem to help more than pain meds, at least by keeping the pain from waking me up several times per night.

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boot up
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PostThu Nov 01, 2018 7:25 pm 
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Ankle fusion might be one of the longest recovery injuries out there. I am coming up on 3 years, active but starting to get the idea the restricted movement will never let me back to 100% full activities, and the stress on the other joints in the foot, compensating for the lack of movement, will eventually become a problem.   

This is what happens when they take the the smallest joint in line for the heaviest pounding, rip apart the entire area, saw the ends off the bones, jam them together, and then screw them in place with 2+inch wood screws.   They never fully explained the ramifications, and at the time alternatives did not seem to be there.    Not enough structure and ligament left for a Full Ankle Replacement when they did the fusion.

Pain management.....  Careful with the NSAIDS, as they tend to be hard on cartilage.  I like Alleve, but try to take it minimally.  And fer gawdsakes stay away from cortisone as it attacks cartilage, ligaments and soft tissue, but docs push it for thin cartilage pain, like they used to push antibiotics for the common cold virus.

Turmeric is a mild anti-inflamatory, NOT a painkiller, although that can be a side effect.

CBD's or Pot Salve is a nice mild topical pain killer for joint aches and pains and muscle spasms.    I often combine it with Aspircreme/Arthricreme(Fred Meyer generic equivalent) Commercial CBD cremes vary considerably in strength/effectivity.  I am lucky and have a legal source of some high quality salve.

My knee on the other non-fused leg is starting to go bad from compensating for the fusion, so I am paying attention to the knee discussion.

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Gregory
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PostSat Nov 03, 2018 5:44 am 
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boot up wrote:
CBD's or Pot Salve is a nice mild topical pain killer for joint aches and pains and muscle spasms.    I often combine it with Aspircreme/Arthricreme(Fred Meyer generic equivalent) Commercial CBD cremes vary considerably in strength/effectivity.  I am lucky and have a legal source of some high quality salve.

A friend turned my wife on to this and now the 78 year old mother in law swears by this. Coming from them two pot haters there must be something to it.
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Schroder
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PostSat Nov 03, 2018 8:56 am 
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I just tried prolotherapy on my hip - an injection of dextrose and B12 directly into the joint.  A ski partner had these done regularly in his knees and they worked pretty well for him.  It's too soon for me to tell and I'm still sore in the area from the procedure.
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DIYSteve
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PostSat Nov 03, 2018 12:49 pm 
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Gotta disagree re steroid shots. Cortisone shots can provide relief for serious joint inflammation better than anything else. I had 2 cortisone shots in my knee prior to TKR surgery. (Protocol requires waiting at least 6 months after steroid shot before TKR surgery.) I had a steroid shot in the same knee 10+ years before (i.e., total of 3 lifetime). My two OSs follow the rule of no more than 5 steroid shots in the same joint in a lifetime.

I fought chronic plantar fasciitis for a couple years, tried everything else (e.g., taping, stretching, rolling, orthotics) without success, then was 100% cured by a dry needle/cortisone shot treatment. That treatment was 3+ years ago and I have not had a PF twinge since then.

I have had good luck with naproxen sodium (Aleve) to quiet down inflammation, although I never go longer than a 2-week course. NSAIDs are hard on the GI track and not good for your heart.

CBD helps me sleep, but AFAICT does not provide me any pain relief. Based on what I've read, the CBD hype is largely unsupported by scientific double blind studies.

I dislike taking opioids, but I made an exception after TKR surgery. I did not take big doses although I felt pretty doped up the first week and cannot imagine getting through that first week without them.

IME, the best way to abate joint swelling and associated pain is an ice water machine, e.g., DonJoy IceMan and elevation. Our DonJoy has worked great for years. The Breg issued to me after TKR surgery pooped out after a week. I've had best luck cycling with ice machine, e.g., 30-45 minutes on, 15-30 minutes off, repeat.
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Chief Joseph
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PostSat Nov 03, 2018 2:50 pm 
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I bought one of the CBD jell items for $5....I felt absolutely no pain relief and just got a mild buzz, waste of money for me...although some say it has put their cancer into remission via CBD consumption.

Thanks for the info on the cortizone shots Steve, I will mention it to my doctor for my upper arms. I have been experiencing a lot of joint and muscle pain in various areas for about 6 weeks, not sure why. It's like all my old aches-pains-injuries have suddenly become amplified X10...my theory is that the Yellow Jacket sting the first of Sept triggered some sort of reaction. I always thought I had a fairly high pain tolerance but with this even a 500mg Vicodin takes the pain down to about 50%. I also can't sleep because every time I move the pain in my upper arms wakes me up, I have resorted to sleeping in the easy chair, which causes less discomfort.

Anyone have experience with acupuncture? Seems it might help my condition. It's like I suddenly developed  Fibromyalgia out of the blue. Hopefully the doctor can diagnose it properly, but I have a feeling that will be difficult.

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DIYSteve
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PostSat Nov 03, 2018 4:45 pm 
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Chief Joseph wrote:
although some say it has put their cancer into remission via CBD consumption

sometimes a placebo works

Chief Joseph wrote:
Thanks for the info on the cortizone shots Steve, I will mention it to my doctor.  .  . 

Well, don't rely on my info. Do your research. Cortisone shots get a bad rap, which may be the legacy of when they were overly prescribed and tissue damage did result. I know lots of people who have been helped by steroid injections and don't know anyone who has claimed ill effects.

Chief Joseph wrote:
my theory is that the Yellow Jacket sting the first of Sept triggered some sort of reaction.

Hmmmmmm. Awhile back I read something about a connection between insect stings and rheumatoid arthritis. You might want to research that.
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Chief Joseph
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PostTue Nov 06, 2018 12:36 pm 
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Just returned from my appointment with a joint specialist. He said he is pretty sure my knee problem is mild arthritis and my sore shoulders are strained, not torn rotator cuffs, so that's good news. He prescribed me what he referred to as "real anti-inflammatory meds" and it appears my pain and stiffness is mainly related to inflammation, so hopefully they will help.

After trying multiple pain relief lotions, I found a really good and inexpensive one at Walmart, Village Naturals bath salts followed with the lotion of the same type. So after a good soak and some pain relief lotion, at this time I feel almost normal. Although I know that the relief is temporary and the recovery is slow, but any progress is good imho.

I mentioned the yellow jacket sting and the possible relation to my condition, that it could be possible, but no way to prove it other than future experience with similar joint pain. Happy. smile.gif

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coldrain108
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PostTue Nov 06, 2018 1:33 pm 
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15 years ago I suffered a catastrophic shoulder injury while skiing.  Plates and screws followed.   Since then it has always been slightly uncomfortable, loss of range of motion and I can no longer throw a 95mph fastball...not that I ever could.   At the end of this summer that shoulder went ballistic and the ache was so bad that there was absolutely no comfortable sleeping position except sitting almost straight up.  There was no associated new injury to set it off.   

I inquired about a cortisone shot and was told that due to all the hardware that was not an option. 

Now I'm feeling much better.  The shoulder is still pretty achy and sore.  I've been doing PT and a lot of ice for the shoulder.  Now it feels like run-of-the-mill tendinitis.  The range of motion has increased, along with quite a bit of popping and cracking in the joint.  It feels like it might return to "normal".  At least I can lay down again.

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DIYSteve
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PostTue Nov 06, 2018 1:48 pm 
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Chief Joseph wrote:
He prescribed me what he referred to as "real anti-inflammatory meds"

meloxicam (aka Mobic)?
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Schenk
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PostTue Nov 06, 2018 2:29 pm 
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I have had a lot of injuries over the years, some pretty serious, but none life threatening...well, maybe. I was told once that i would never hike with a pack again...proved that doctor wrong. Really, really wrong... biggrin.gif  up.gif
Pain medications and anti inflammatory drugs never really had a positive effect on my pain or mobility.
After 40 years of dealing living with the aftermath of destruction, the main thing that works for me is to stay active.
It sounds simplistic, and obvious, but it is worth mentioning.
Even if I am inactive for a week it is noticeable.
Diet seems to play a strong role too.
Eat healthy, stay active. Simple advice that works for a lot of folks.

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Chief Joseph
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PostTue Nov 06, 2018 2:53 pm 
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DIYSteve wrote:
Chief Joseph wrote:
He prescribed me what he referred to as "real anti-inflammatory meds"

meloxicam (aka Mobic)?

Etodolac (Lodine)....I took the first one about an hour ago and so far have a lot of relief from the pain and stiffness.

Schenk wrote:
Pain medications and anti inflammatory drugs never really had a positive effect on my pain or mobility.

Same with me, opiods barely made a difference in the stiffness of my joints and just masked the pain some and made me drowsy.

Schenk wrote:
Eat healthy, stay active. Simple advice that works for a lot of folks.

I have lost over 10 pounds (5'9" 181 now) since this condition began, due to eating healthier, less, and being less active. Hopefully now that I am getting some relief, I will be more mobile and start walking, biking, and hiking again.

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Schroder
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PostTue Nov 06, 2018 5:22 pm 
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I found a topical ointment worth mentioning but you can only buy it otc Canada and it's pretty cheap up there. Voltaren (topical diclofenac).
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Kascadia
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PostTue Nov 06, 2018 6:17 pm 
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Schenk wrote:
After 40 years of dealing living with the aftermath of destruction, the main thing that works for me is to stay active.
It sounds simplistic, and obvious, but it is worth mentioning.
Even if I am inactive for a week it is noticeable.
Diet seems to play a strong role too.
Eat healthy, stay active. Simple advice that works for a lot of folks.

I have that experience also, at least relative to the hips.  Going for a week without exercise means waking up at night with the pain.  The heavier the workload, the better.  I sometimes think it's not only the exercise, but sitting down less because of it - individualistic, perhaps.

The knees, however, are a different problem. . .
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DIYSteve
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PostTue Nov 06, 2018 6:48 pm 
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Opioids mask pain. That's pretty much all they do, other than making some people addicted to them. I hate opioid side effects and usually avoid them, but I cannot imagine getting through my first 3 weeks post-TKR surgery without them.

NSAIDs work for many people. Naproxen sodium works very well for me to reduce inflammation and, to a lesser extent, for pain. Ibuprofen and meloxicam not so much.

Prolonged sitting can be bad for back, knees and hips. I sit much less since I went into semi-retirement a couple years ago.

Sure, diet and staying active help. So does cutting down on beer.

Lowering exposure to stressors helps a bunch. Moving out of Seattle to Eburg has profoundly lessened my stress level. When I go to Seattle every couple weeks, my blood pressure and pulse raise significantly when I hit Issaquah and stay there until I hit the hill E-bound out of Issaquah.
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