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Malachai Constant
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PostTue Nov 06, 2018 7:54 pm 
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Unfortunately I am very negative on opioids from my prior experience on criminal law and personal observation. They provide a useful function for this few with untreatable pain but are far overperscribed. My daughter is in research at a large research university in New Haven and their research has shown how insidious the effects are. We cannot blame the victims as they are slaves to their biochemistry. Brain pathways are rewired and substituted after a relatively small period of use. I have told those I love to avoid use if they possibly can. Beware of physicians and big pharma who push them. Just my opinion.

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"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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DIYSteve
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PostTue Nov 06, 2018 8:15 pm 
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Summarizing Mal's post:

Opioids are great for short term pain relief after surgery or injury

Long term opioid use should be illegal because it leads to addiction, often profound addiction, in a large segment of the population.

I'll add this: Widespread prescription opioid addiction is exclusively a USA problem. They are prescribed only for short term use in western Europe and much of the rest of the developed world and widespread addiction is not an issue in those places.
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sarbar
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Joined: 28 Jan 2002
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PostWed Nov 07, 2018 6:55 pm 
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Over the years I have watched dentists just hand out opioids like candy. Having an implant put in, I was offered a prescription! Having a root canal? Same thing.
When my now 21 yo son had his wisdom teeth taken out at 18, I let him have 1 days worth at minimun dose, then locked up the rest. Suck it up, and get moving. I had 3 teeth removed in my 30's before I had all my dental work done and I did it with no pain killers. I am very, very leery of opioids. We SHOULD feel some pain in life to remind us we are human (and yes, I have had 3 kids.....)
My brother recently had to have major dental work done and I told him the same. He was super pissy to me (he recovered at my house) but ya know....he's 47 and doesn't need to taste how good it can feel.
Yeah, I am mean. I have seen too many people wrecked with prescription pills over the years.

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Anne Elk
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PostWed Nov 07, 2018 10:24 pm 
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Just read all the posts in this thread.  I can offer some low tech solutions that may provide some relief, based on 15+ years of doing manual therapy, observing effects on clients, and what I've tried on myself.  Although my personal experience with muscle/joint pain hasn't involved some of the severe trauma described here,  trying these with what you're already doing can only help.

The first is dietary - some foods are inflammatory by nature and just exacerbate whatever you have going on in your joints.  Sugar, of course, is verboten, about as inflammatory as it gets.  Also veggies in the nightshade family: tomato, peppers, potatoes, eggplant.  Or you can go crazy and try the whole anti-inflammatory diet recommended by the Arthritis Foundation.  It takes at least 5 days to a week to start noticing the changes.  I can attest to the "nightshade effect":  I discovered a new habanero salsa at Trader Joe's and devoured whole jar in a few days.  Then finished off the week with a pasta/marinara sauce dinner.  Woke up the next morning with all the joints in my hands and my feet stiff and painful.  I hadn't done any heavy yard work or hikes,  so the next thought was, "what did I eat?"  And realized I'd OD'd on the nightshades (plus sugar plus booze).  Many people feel too deprived on the radical elimination diet; try cutting out the worst offenders (nightshades, refined sugars and booze) for two weeks - you can do almost anything inthe diet dept for just 2 weeks, right?

2nd tip - postural support for sleeping

The object is to support the joint in as neutral, non-strain and non-weight bearing position as possible.  Example: rotator cuff injuries - lay with the injured side up and support the larm with a pillow thick enough that the shoulder and elbow are parallel, with the pillow supporting the entire lower arm (ie, you prop the arm on the pillow; don't hug it).

Similar strategies for the knee/hip. There is a foam product out there molded for fitting between the knees, but I find that a firm king size pillow works as well or better since the king pillow can support the entire lower leg.

With increasing age and creakiness I've discovered that having a collection of pillows and foam in various sizes and firmness can be added as needed to my favorite sleeping position for extra comfort.  If you like back sleeping but have low back/hip/knee pain, the "neutral"position for both joints and the back is to have firm support under the knees that also elevates the whole lower leg to the same height.  If you have a cushion under your knees but the lower legs aren't elevated, there's still a downward pull on the low back and hips, keeping the low back slightly arched.  Test this out and compare the two; you'll be amazed at the difference.

Finally - this isn't exactly lo-tech,  and not self-help - I highly recommend trying a few treatments from any graduate of the Institute of Structural Medicine of Twisp.  Note the "find a practitioner" menu.   I took a number of classes from the founder, Donna Bajelis, when she still had a PT office in Ballard; didn't do her certification program.   I have some stories about things Donna could "fix" or "near-fix" that greatly improved surgical outcomes.  Greatest improvements are with mobility.   Many of the best soft-tissue manual therapists don't accept insurance; insurance won't pay what they're worth.  PM me for additional info/discussion.

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"There are yahoos out there.  Itís why we canít have nice things."  - Tom Mahood
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DigitalJanitor
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PostThu Nov 08, 2018 11:46 am 
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FWIW I'm following along and appreciating all the non opioid options. Apparently there's something that runs in my family where we never get the euphoria of the drugs and instead just feel a combination of really sick and a vague bad high that goes on forever, to the point that we've all taken turns gutting out all kinds of pain (dental adventures, chemo, surgery, etc) on ibuprofen and distraction just so we don't have to suffer through the even worse effects of another pill.

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Tom
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PostThu Nov 08, 2018 1:40 pm 
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Anne Elk wrote:
Also veggies in the nightshade family: tomato, peppers, potatoes, eggplant.  Or you can go crazy and try the whole anti-inflammatory diet recommended by the Arthritis Foundation.  It takes at least 5 days to a week to start noticing the changes.  I can attest to the "nightshade effect"

Arthritis foundation says little scientific evidence.  YMMV.

https://www.arthritis.org/living-with-arthritis/arthritis-diet/best-foods-for-arthritis/best-vegetables-for-arthritis.php

Quote:
It is anecdotal, and it certainly might be true for some people, but there are no scientific studies done to prove that they actually cause inflammation or make symptoms worse

http://blog.arthritis.org/living-with-arthritis/nightshades-arthritis/
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Anne Elk
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PostThu Nov 08, 2018 1:58 pm 
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Tom wrote:
Arthritis foundation says little scientific evidence.  YMMV.

https://www.arthritis.org/living-with-arthritis/arthritis-diet/best-foods-for-arthritis/best-vegetables-for-arthritis.php

Quote:
It is anecdotal, and it certainly might be true for some people, but there are no scientific studies done to prove that they actually cause inflammation or make symptoms worse

On that point, often the reason that no scientific studies are done is because there's no profit to be made from the results of the research.  And there's no "vegetable lobby", like the sugar or cattlemen's lobby putting up a contra-position.  The proof is in the self-testing.  My nightshade "overdose" was pretty unequivocal, IMO.  It doesn't cost anything to test yourself, except a determination not to cheat.

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"There are yahoos out there.  Itís why we canít have nice things."  - Tom Mahood
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Bernardo
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PostThu Nov 08, 2018 2:38 pm 
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Anyone have any experince with an impinged muscle in upper chest below the shoulder?  My doctor is recommending I start with a program of stretches and exercises.  This sounds good to me.  I think it might be related to hiking pole use.  I find poles in tough terrain stress muscles that don't otherwise get much use.  Poles are not an unadulterated good.
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Anne Elk
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PostThu Nov 08, 2018 2:48 pm 
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Not sure what you mean by "impinged".  "Strained", perhaps?  If it were me, I'd apply some heat packs, gentle stretching.  Rest & patience.  Easy to over-work the subscapularis tendon when XC skiing, same w/hiking poles (internal rotation muscle).  Can be eval by palpation by someone who knows where to check.  BTW - Except in a very rudimentary sense,  muscle and joint issues are mostly a blank spot in the knowledge base of GPs. But best to rest.

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"There are yahoos out there.  Itís why we canít have nice things."  - Tom Mahood
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treeswarper
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PostThu Nov 08, 2018 4:07 pm 
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Bought some pot cream this morning.  I am skeptical as I tried it a few years ago and nothing happened.  On Saturday, my baddest knee acted up.  It has been aching and woke me up this morning.  The pot cream seems to be helping but I'll wait and see.

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Tom
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PostThu Nov 08, 2018 9:18 pm 
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Magnesium lotion does wonders for my feet.  Don't care much for the oil or spray (sticky and can irritate the skin) but highly recommend the lotion.

https://www.amazon.com/Life-Flo-Magnesium-Supplement-Zechstein-Relaxation/dp/B00K5QUAIG

As far as pot cream, my wife swears by cannibis basics remedy stick and lavender lotion.  It's pretty pricey though.

http://www.cannabisbasics.com/remedy-pain-stick/

http://www.cannabisbasics.com/satin-skin-soothing-lotion/
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uww
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PostThu Nov 08, 2018 10:36 pm 
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I'm getting creakier knees and longer recoveries. Seems like keeping things stretched out and balanced in the larger muscles of the leg helps. Transfers the load a bit I suppose- hiking poles have been a huge help for me as well.  And I agree you have to use it or lose it.

Any other advice for prevention strategies/systems?
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treeswarper
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PostFri Nov 09, 2018 7:02 am 
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My rough riding bicycle seems to loosen things up and help.  I need to face the fact that I now have to bundle up to go for a ride now that it is November.

Pot cream felt good last night.

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Chief Joseph
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PostSat Nov 10, 2018 2:09 pm 
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After 5 days on the anti-inflammatory meds I have made good progress, I was actually able to sleep 5+ hours straight without waking up with pain after 1-2 hours. I still having swelling in my knee but it doesn't hurt much and the pain in my arms and shoulder is about 50% better. I went for a bike ride a couple of days ago and that seems to be easier on my leg than walking. I am just happy to be making progress after 2 months of nearly constant pain and stiffness.  smile.gif

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DIYSteve
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seeking hygge
PostSat Nov 10, 2018 4:48 pm 
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Good news. The right NSAID for the individual can be great help.
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