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Cyclopath
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PostSat Nov 10, 2018 5:18 pm 
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When I got hit by that car, they put me on celebrex (?) and it worked very well.
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Cyclopath
Faster than light



Joined: 20 Mar 2012
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Location: Seattle
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PostSat Nov 10, 2018 5:21 pm 
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sarbar wrote:
Over the years I have watched dentists just hand out opioids like candy. Having an implant put in, I was offered a prescription! Having a root canal? Same thing.
When my now 21 yo son had his wisdom teeth taken out at 18, I let him have 1 days worth at minimun dose, then locked up the rest. Suck it up, and get moving. I had 3 teeth removed in my 30's before I had all my dental work done and I did it with no pain killers. I am very, very leery of opioids. We SHOULD feel some pain in life to remind us we are human (and yes, I have had 3 kids.....)
My brother recently had to have major dental work done and I told him the same. He was super pissy to me (he recovered at my house) but ya know....he's 47 and doesn't need to taste how good it can feel.
Yeah, I am mean. I have seen too many people wrecked with prescription pills over the years.

Having my (impacted) wisdom teeth pulled is the worst pain I've ever been through.  Much worse than being hit by a car while riding a bike, and they kept me a full day in the ICU.  Worse than a broken rib.  Two weeks of intense, hellish pain.   frown.gif
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DIYSteve
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PostSat Nov 10, 2018 6:34 pm 
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We could start a thread on the worst pain each of us have suffered.

My worst day was directly after cranial surgery. (Surgeon sawed a hole in my skull, excavated out a tumor and inner ear, then filled the void with fat.) I was put on an IV with morphine but that wasn't enough. The pain was intense I wanted to die to get relief. (I'm not kidding.)

They switched the IV to a fentanyl drip, which provided instant relief. You may have read or heard about fentanyl in the news. It's 50 times more potent per weight than heroin. It's smuggled into the US from Asia, gets cut into street heroin and has been responsible for thousands of OD deaths. It's tough to stop the smuggling because a very small amount has high value and can be smuggled in a letter-size envelope.

My personal experience with fentanyl is illustrative of the tension between the utility of opioids for short term pain relief and the potential for addiction and resultant death. I cannot imagine getting through my first two days of brain surgery recovery without it. On the flip side: A couple years before my brain surgery, a long time client and good friend died from a heroin OD, a hot dose very likely containing fentanyl.

Opioids are not evil. When used properly for short term intense pain relief, they have great utility (e.g., morphine for combat injuries). But for long term pain relief they are the wrong medicine, can make things worse and have great potential for addiction in many people.

If you have any interest in the history of widespread use of opioids for long term pain (exclusive to the U.S.), start by reading this article about the concealment and fraud committed by Purdue Pharma. IMV, Purdue's fraud is nothing short of mass murder.
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Cyclopath
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PostSun Nov 11, 2018 3:40 pm 
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My PT has me doing single leg deadlifts.  No weight, just an empty cup.  Turns out these are real popular among physical therapists for anything to do with core, foot, or ankle strength, and great for balance too.  As I'm getting older, I'm getting more interested in "prehap."

Try using opposite arm/leg
Try using opposite arm/leg
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Bernardo
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PostSun Nov 11, 2018 7:55 pm 
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Prehab sounds good!

If you don't do prehab, you'll do rehab!
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Anne Elk
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PostSun Nov 11, 2018 9:20 pm 
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I got curious when I clicked on Tom's Amazon link for "magnesium lotion" and saw that the active ingredient was magnesium chloride, rather than magnesium sulfate, which is what "Epsom Salt" is - the traditional sore muscle soak.  I wondered what the difference was,  so went rooting thru Google, which got me off on a different tack.

The search turned up a link to a lengthy but entertaining article Does Epsom Salt Work? by former BC RMT Paul Ingraham.  We'd struck up a collegial correspondence some years ago when I was thinking of doing a similar type of blog and decided to see what else was out there first.  In its first incarnation, his blog was called "SaveYourself.ca".  It was so  excellent and comprehensive that I decided I couldn't remotely do better, and wrote to tell him so.

The blog is now titled PainScience.com. I highly recommend it for anyone with a creaky anything. Which is everyone at NWH, right?  The core of the blog focuses on all manner of issues related to musculoskeletal pain, injury and therapy.  Ingraham is kind of the "Quackbuster" of everything related to muscles and joints; he does deep, solid research, his articles are heavily referenced to clinical journals, and he's always updating them.  You'll enjoy Ingraham's healthy skepticism when it comes to medicine (alternative and otherwise), and sense of humor.

Most importantly, don't miss the "tutorial" publications in his ebookstore which address the most common pain complaints and injuries.  In a burst of collegial generosity, he gifted me access to these and I can attest that they're worth the very modest price.  It's how he supports himself, keeps the blog going, and eliminates the need for adverts on the site.  Enjoy!

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"There are yahoos out there.  Itís why we canít have nice things."  - Tom Mahood
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Tom
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PostSun Nov 11, 2018 11:03 pm 
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All I know is magnesium lotion works for my feet.  YMMV.  No need to buy my e-book. clown.gif   Actually my wife's neurologist offered that advice free of charge.
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cascadetraverser
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PostSun Nov 11, 2018 11:16 pm 
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Sorry to say I donít think any sure fire anti inflammatory medicine or natural anti inflammatory cure really exists.  Tylenol is generally side effect free and helpful for pain and NSAIDs have plenty of side effects, have a minimal anti inflammatory effect and are reasonable pain meds especially for those who rarely use them.  Not sure about the rest of the remedies suggested above but anecdotal help is real but whether it is real or placebo is the question but if it helps you and isnít harmful then go for it ( I am not one to recommend avoiding heathy foods like chiliís and tomatos givens all the alternative trash people love to put in their mouth and keeping in mind whole cultures have benefited from the same, think the mediateranean diet)..most scientific studies havenít really bore out many true anti inflammatory winners ( the above note about the capitalist bent of most studies is a reasonable assertion but many big time medical organizations that advocate prevention and cost savings, Canadian and British National Health Care and Kaiser Permanente where I work do plenty of studies and would die to find a great anti inflammatory cure that really worked but alas it doesnít to this point exist)

So what to do??

Stretch!!!!  Infammed/ damaged tendons and muscles heal better when relaligned properly via good stretching.

Stay active whenever possible through the injury.  Sometimes gravity is a bad idea so get into the pool.  Movement and strengthening help and promote healing most the time.  Some injuries just need to be left alone but try to get the rest of the body moving....

As for pain management, AVOID narcotics whenever possible. They can lead to addiction, have horrible side effects have zero positive benefits other than taking away the pain (as Steveís note above spells out can be a necessity) but whenever possible avoid em.

Try to keep the body in the best possible shape to prevent injuries by regularly stretching exercising regularly and keeping the body supple and relaxed ( avoid stress and the inevitable tension in the muscles that seems to lead to a whole host of pain and suffering).  Mind body techniques that release tension in the body is rarely talked about but likely can be more beneficial than anything....

Alright thatís my MD spiel and hope you all find it helpful...
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DIYSteve
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PostMon Nov 12, 2018 6:40 am 
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cascadetraverser wrote:
Stretch!!!!† Infammed/ damaged tendons and muscles heal better when relaligned properly via good stretching.

Stretching too soon after a tendon or muscle strain or tear can redamage tissue and/or prevent healing. Don't ask me how I know this.
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cascadetraverser
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PostMon Nov 12, 2018 8:50 am 
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Overstretching can damage injured tendons and muscles. True; it depends on the type and extent of the injury.  It always is best to seek professional help as to what is best.  As has been pointed out numerous times in this forum, a good body worker (physical therapist) is super helpful in this regard.
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Chief Joseph
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PostMon Nov 12, 2018 2:52 pm 
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As has been said, I have good days and bad days, maybe I will try Tylenol instead of the anti-inflammatory meds, as I do worry about the side effects. One thing that I know for sure is that the high humidity and cold in Verlot is not helping, plus I have no tub to soak in. O' to be in Arizona right now!

I do plan on heading to Idaho in a few weeks, where I will have a tub and more comforts of an actual home. Plus the humidity is typically very low and the sun actually shines, whereas for the next 6-8 weeks the sun will not make it over the southern horizon in Verlot. Great place in summer, but totally sucks in winter.

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sarbar
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PostWed Nov 14, 2018 9:36 am 
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Couple things:

Weed is easy to make into infused oil. You bake the shake, then infuse it into the oil (I use coconut oil), and then strain it. Once done you can use this in any salve or balm recipe. YMMV of course.

Yes Opioids can be beneficial - in extreme need that is. My issue lies in that we are using them for things they are not needed for. You don't need them for dental implants, most dental surgery, and even some surgeries. However, in emergency situations yes, they can be highly beneficial. I have no issues with that kind of use. Or for terminal illness use.

My oldest Aunt was highly addicted but no one stopped her. Why? The doctors most likely felt sorry for her, and figured the outcome was better if she took them.

My brother would stop in weekly to check on her and noted when she started getting really bad. She had had multiple cancers, tumors, etc in the 70's and had survived using Hoxie from Mexico till she went off it in the mid 2000's, after my Mom died. She went to Europe and ate every inflammatory food she hadn't eaten in 30 years. She knew it was a death sentence. Her cancer came back and filled her body....hence the rampant use of opioids to dull it. She refused to get her cancer confirmed but it was obvious, from the rampant night sweats to everything else.

One visit my brother found her and almost thought she was dead, but was barely breathing. She was forcibly taken to a hospital. In most likely a HIPPA violation the doctors talked to my brother (her only relative there) and told them that her addiction was one of the worst they had seen in awhile - and that in most people her pain pills would have killed them long ago. They had her on a drip with button and they watched to see how much she was taking and it was bad. They had to back her off (where the machine didn't give) to just get her where they could talk to her and have her mostly mentally clear.

The sad part is she never went home. She stayed in a hospital for the remainder of her life. In some ways, maybe it would have been better had she just gone to sleep and not woken up. But that is what over prescribing pain meds does!

As for the inflammation comments: I get it. Some people refuse to believe it exists. It does. Just not in the ways you might think it does. Food allergies work in this way in some people - and wreak havoc throughout the body. For example, our youngest son has multiple severe food allergies. He also has eczema and asthma - which are auto immune issues. There are foods that won't cause hives or anaphylaxis, but cause severe inflammation in his GI tract, which then causes his e & a to flare up, often badly.

Over and over in the allergy community you see this. People remove the main triggers (nightshades, wheat and gluten, dairy, etc) and they see improvement rapidly.

Allergist doctors see this. And work with it.

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Ski
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PostWed Nov 14, 2018 9:59 am 
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DIYSteve wrote:
We could start a thread on the worst pain each of us have suffered.

Not sure how you'd be able to quantify level of pain experienced on an incident by incident basis. When it occurs it's the worst you've ever experienced, until the next time it happens.

Opioids are not evil. Fentanyl worked wonders - I wore Fentanyl patches for a few months.

Do what you need to do. Long term pain makes you crazy after a while.

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I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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sarbar
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PostWed Nov 14, 2018 10:45 am 
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Kascadia wrote:
sarbar wrote:
He also has eczema and asthma - which are auto immune issues

This is incorrect.

No, I am quite correct. You may not recognize it, but both are. Now, is this fully believed in? No. It will be soon enough.
I could link links all day long that are from fact checked medical journals, but I have a life to live.......
And yes, actual allergist doctors are finally making the connection. Remove the inflammation in the body, eczema goes away fast.

As far back as even the 2000's our own gov't has published a number of articles connecting asthma and autoimmune disease. It's right there...waiting in Google.

Also, research the AIP diet for those with inflammation, asthma and eczema.

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Kascadia
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PostWed Nov 14, 2018 2:12 pm 
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sarbar wrote:
As for the inflammation comments: I get it. Some people refuse to believe it exists. It does. Just not in the ways you might think it does. Food allergies work in this way in some people - and wreak havoc throughout the body. For example, our youngest son has multiple severe food allergies. He also has eczema and asthma - which are auto immune issues. There are foods that won't cause hives or anaphylaxis, but cause severe inflammation in his GI tract, which then causes his e & a to flare up, often badly. Over and over in the allergy community you see this. People remove the main triggers (nightshades, wheat and gluten, dairy, etc) and they see improvement rapidly. Allergist doctors see this. And work with it.

Allergies are specific (antibodies are like that. . . ), I'm not quite sure I understand your analogy to some sort of "general purpose" anti-inflammatory diet and your son's severe food allergies.  The fact that his asthma and/or eczema (most likely of the atopic variety (not autoimmune)) are triggered secondarily by a strong allergic food response is not surprising.  Are you saying that a strong allergic response can have systemic effects on cells which are already "primed" at a different location?   That's not a leap, nor does it mean that the effect is entirely a direct/strictly inflammatory one.  A compromised gut (absorption of nutrients) does not necessarily bode well for other bodily systems or the microbiome.  In addition, I would guess that these episodes are stressful which is deleterious to the immune system.  But how does that relate to a "general purpose" anti-inflammatory diet?  Gluten is linked to celiac disease, an autoimmune disorder.  Dairy/lactose intolerance (in the majority of cases) is not an "immune disorder"/allergy/autoimmune, but due to an enzyme deficiency. 
Anyway, no need to post links.  And best wishes for your son.
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