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Ski
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PostTue Nov 20, 2018 4:27 pm 
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I'd guess that mortality rates for birds caused by oil-fouled waters and seashores are far higher than are those caused by wind turbines.
Just a wild guess.
But feel free to insist that the minuscule number of bird deaths caused by wind turbines is a valid argument against them.

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DIYSteve
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PostTue Nov 20, 2018 6:11 pm 
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MtnGoat wrote:
I see validating *additional* killing of more birds to solve a non issue 

Bizarre. Replacing more deadly energy production with less deadly energy production resuts in net less killing. Arithmetic is hard!

And more "externalities don't matter" palaver? $2.4 trillion dollar oil war? Oh, that's right, you get your paycheck from a defense contractor. Nothing to see here.
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MtnGoat
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PostFri Dec 07, 2018 11:46 am 
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Tom wrote:
Nonexistent AGW?

Yes.

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PostFri Dec 07, 2018 11:48 am 
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Malachai Constant wrote:
It is clear he just considers incidental bird kill from wind turbines just another bullet point in his crusade against doing any thing to remedy global warming.

Of course, points against waste, disruption, and abuse of people to 'solve' a natural process, are all useful.

Should I 'just' consider it something else? What is logically invalid about using reasons consistent with an argument to support an argument?

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PostFri Dec 07, 2018 11:50 am 
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DIYSteve wrote:
MtnGoat wrote:
I see validating *additional* killing of more birds to solve a non issue 

Bizarre. Replacing more deadly energy production with less deadly energy production resuts in net less killing. Arithmetic is hard!

And more "externalities don't matter" palaver? $2.4 trillion dollar oil war? Oh, that's right, you get your paycheck from a defense contractor. Nothing to see here.

Your argument presumes replacement actually takes place. What you want vs the actuality of what is demonstrated, is very different.

What see actually see everywhere is continued reliance upon standard plant to make up for the continual shortfalls in 'green' energy. This math, not very hard.

As for the last bit, more logical fallacies for your log pile of them.

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treeswarper
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PostFri Dec 07, 2018 12:29 pm 
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On killing cats, after they are gone guess folks will have to resort to poisons to get the rodents.  Traps work too, but poison is easier.   I had little to no mouse damage in my shop after getting a mean cat from the humane society.  Cats have their place and cats can have jobs to do.

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RandyHiker
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PostFri Dec 07, 2018 1:39 pm 
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MtnGoat wrote:
Your argument presumes replacement actually takes place. What you want vs the actuality of what is demonstrated, is very different.

There is data showing that wind generation reduces carbon dioxide emissions very effectively.

https://cleantechnica.com/2014/05/07/wind-power/

You've made assertions that building wind/solar capacity doesn't reduce the needed fossil fuel generation capacity of the grid,  there is some logic to that argument (e.g. cold windless nights in winter) but if your going to assert that wind/solar generation doesn't reduce the amount fossil fuel consumed and carbon dioxide,  you'll need to show data that demonstrates this and not just speculates that it is so.
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DIYSteve
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PostFri Dec 07, 2018 4:41 pm 
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treeswarper wrote:
On killing cats, after they are gone guess folks will have to resort to poisons to get the rodents.  Traps work too, but poison is easier.   I had little to no mouse damage in my shop after getting a mean cat from the humane society.  Cats have their place and cats can have jobs to do.

The vast majority of song bird kills are by urban and suburban cats. Rural cats are often not big bird killers because there are plenty of rodents. I have seen no evidence of bird kills by our cats, who have killed at least 100 rodents this year.
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