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Grannyhiker
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PostSun Nov 18, 2018 4:49 pm 
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When those winds get going, space is of little help.  In the Wine Country fires a year ago, the fire leaped a 6-lane freeway in Santa Rosa as though it wasn't there (I got the full fire tour last Christmas).  The fires that hit Redding earlier this summer easily leaped the Sacramento River.  Once a firestorm develops, the only hope is to get well out of its way--which the residents of Paradise were not able to do.  If people insist on rebuilding there, they need to build better access roads!

The death toll is considerably higher every time I check the news.  As of now (4:40 PST) it's reported at 76.

My daughter-the-veterinarian has been up there treating the rescued horses.  She put in a 40-hour shift a couple of days ago and is scheduled for another next weekend.

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Schroder
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PostSun Nov 18, 2018 5:42 pm 
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The New York Times has been doing a good series on the fire. Here's today's article:
‘Hell on Earth’: The First 12 Hours of California’s Deadliest Wildfire

Three years ago my wife and I drove up the Feather River and took Forest Service roads up to Lake Amanor, repeating a trip we had done 40 years ago.  Going up the canyon reminded me of driving up the Skagit past Diablo.  I can imagine the winds driving through there from the east and feeding the flames that were moving 100 yards a minute.
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treeswarper
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PostSun Nov 18, 2018 8:07 pm 
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Grannyhiker wrote:
When those winds get going, space is of little help.  In the Wine Country fires a year ago, the fire leaped a 6-lane freeway in Santa Rosa as though it wasn't there (I got the full fire tour last Christmas).  The fires that hit Redding earlier this summer easily leaped the Sacramento River.  Once a firestorm develops, the only hope is to get well out of its way--which the residents of Paradise were not able to do.  If people insist on rebuilding there, they need to build better access roads!

The death toll is considerably higher every time I check the news.  As of now (4:40 PST) it's reported at 76. 

My daughter-the-veterinarian has been up there treating the rescued horses.  She put in a 40-hour shift a couple of days ago and is scheduled for another next weekend.


I actually got a tour of a place just west of Napa last year.  During the fires there, the folks staying there could not get out.  They had one way out and it was too late to leave.  Their house survived as it was in a large clearing and made out of rocks.  The redwoods on the edge burned.  The houses along the creek along the road burned.  Their place was on a flat spot on a hillside.  I'd guess they had about five acres cleared around their house.  They did lose a shed, which was located just in the trees.

One of the rules of firefighting is to have a safety area or escape.   We took shelter several days in a row in clearings while lodgepole crowned out around us.  There wasn't much wind, but the lodgepole torched quite impressively.  After the fire burned out around us, we'd get back to digging line.  That was in the Desolation? area kinda by Dale and Ukiah, OR.

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Ski
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PostSun Nov 18, 2018 9:12 pm 
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a member on another forum, on 11/18/18 @ 07:27 PST wrote:

Good morning. I am beyond devastated that I have lost my shop and all its contents in the “Camp Fire incident” in Paradise. I have been a lifetime hot rod and motorcycle guy and never had a lot of restraint in picking up things that I wanted to build on the future. I had enough projects to keep me busy for at least another 20 years.
Without publicly getting into details, suffice to say I had a serious level workshop that was very well equipped. If anyone has gone through this before I would greatly appreciate some insight to dealing with my insurance company. The property had a “farm pack” policy on it which should at a minimum cover farm equipment and incidentals used in conjunction with the farm.
If you have gone through this before you know how devastating this is.
If you have not, you cannot even begin to comprehend how life changing this is.
I am a reasonably intelligent person, and ten days ago I couldn’t have even imagined how difficult this would be.


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Layback
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PostSun Nov 18, 2018 9:18 pm 
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I have fond memories of riding up Honey Run into Paradise. Such a beautiful community. God bless the families dealing with this. I hope they are able to grieve, recover and rebuild.
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Malachai Constant
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PostSun Nov 18, 2018 9:59 pm 
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I have been involved with several fires in California in the past few years with relatives having to leave their homes temporarily and permanently. They have lived in these areas for decades with no problem and suddenly all is lost. The drought has been on for seven years and shows little chance of ending soon. The stupid is intense in high places. Changes and not for the better. frown.gif

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"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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PostSun Nov 18, 2018 11:19 pm 
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Malachai Constant wrote:
The stupid is intense in high places.

^ Understatement of the month nomination.

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"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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treeswarper
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PostMon Nov 19, 2018 7:13 am 
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There is denial all over the place.  I have listened to a former Calfire guy rant about all the rules preventing people from doing mitigation work.   The intricate rules in his area are made by lowly local people.  He mentions that the people demand to have green spaces, and then refuse to do any brush/tree work in those areas to keep them "natural".  That may have been the case in Paradise and another little thing that added to the conflagration. 

Calfire has been aware of such places.  Another development set to go with access and egress problems is near Grass Valley.  The Calfire plan is to try to get residents out and wait till all the propane tanks have exploded.  That sounds humorous, but it does make sense if you have seen the place.  \

Sun River, OR is another, with a maze of roads and it is easy to get lost in with all the roundabouts and dead end roads.  They have been doing thinning and pruning but there are older buildings made of cedar shingles and roofed with cedar shingles in it. 

How long has the Fire Safe program been in effect?  It sounds like it has not been taken seriously.  Maybe it will?  I doubt it.

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treeswarper
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PostMon Nov 19, 2018 7:31 am 
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If you want to help:

https://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/fires/article221440915.html

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What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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RandyHiker
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PostMon Nov 19, 2018 7:41 am 
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A friend of mine built a place in the woods near Leavenworth.  During the planning and design phase  a decade ago, he consulted many resources to make it as fire resistant as possible, including meeting with the local fire chief.  The fire chief's final bit of advice was: "Look, you've done every reasonable thing to be fire resistant, you could spend a lot more money and make your house substantially uglier, but you're still going to need fire insurance in the event there is a really big fire that no one can control"

There was a house near Twist that survived a forest fire burning right over the house and it suffered almost no damage, but who wants to live in a concrete dome? 

It will be interesting to see in what ways and to what extent Paradise rebuilds.   Many people will want to move away.
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DigitalJanitor
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PostMon Nov 19, 2018 9:19 am 
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Some California wildfire victims may never be found
Peace for the loved ones and survivors, I can't even imagine.

We were talking this weekend about if/when a big fire gets started up at Lake Cle Elum... Trying to figure out who was there and who got out could be extremely difficult, as there's a lot of vacation places + camping.

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Seventy2002
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PostMon Nov 19, 2018 4:56 pm 
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RandyHiker wrote:
who wants to live in a concrete dome?

Perhaps the question is, "who wants to die in wooden box?"  Houses should be built with environmental hazards in mind, be it high snow loads, periodic flooding, high winds, or fires.
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PostMon Nov 19, 2018 6:08 pm 
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The question to ask is "WHY would you put a cedar shingle roof on a house anywhere south of Medford?"

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I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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RandyHiker
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PostMon Nov 19, 2018 6:20 pm 
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Seventy2002 wrote:
RandyHiker wrote:
who wants to live in a concrete dome?

Perhaps the question is, "who wants to die in wooden box?"  Houses should be built with environmental hazards in mind, be it high snow loads, periodic flooding, high winds, or fires.

Listen to the podcast posted earlier.  My take away from that is that one can substantially improve the fire resistance of existing,  conventional structures without radical or excessively expensive changes.  Replacing a shake roof with composition it probably the single most expensive item.

Also interesting listening NPR radio coverage today talking to Paradise residents whose houses survived,  often quite close to neighbors whose houses burned to the ground.  Even though their house survived,  when all the stores,,gas stations and other services gone how can one move back in and resume anything like the prior life?
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treeswarper
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PostMon Nov 19, 2018 7:48 pm 
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Hardiplank and other cement boards come in a variety of styles.  I had that on my last house.  It had a fake wood grain on it.

Then add a metal roof.  Metal roofs also come in a variety  of shapes and colors.  Some here in town have steel shingles, or some kind of metal shingles that look quite nice.  The good thing about metal roofs is that if they have a nice slope, needles and snow slide off.

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