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treeswarper
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Alleged Sockpuppet!
PostTue Nov 20, 2018 6:04 am 
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This is depressing.  I guess I won't go see stuff.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/nov/20/national-parks-america-overcrowding-crisis-tourism-visitation-solutions

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What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be humanĖĖanimals and aliens are great possibilities
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Anne Elk
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PostTue Nov 20, 2018 6:53 am 
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Good article, TS. Really captures the intensity of the situation.  It's the same in Canada. An old friend who co-authored the original CR Trail Guide won't go near Banff & the Bow Valley these days.  So depressing.  shakehead.gif

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"There are yahoos out there.  Itís why we canít have nice things."  - Tom Mahood
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Snuffy
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PostTue Nov 20, 2018 7:01 am 
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I hear Yellowstone is nice in the winter.   smile.gif

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jasonracey
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PostTue Nov 20, 2018 7:22 am 
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I stopped posting WTA trip reports about 10 years ago. You definitely see a trip posted, and then a dozen more from that location soon afterwards, as everyone flocks there based on the initial report.

I also noticed Flickr contacts seeing me post an image, then a week later an image from the same location shows up on their page.

When I set up my tripod for a shot in national parks that are stupid crowded - Arches, Yosemite, Rocky Mountain - I've had people line up right next to me to try to get the same image. I've even had people who don't understand wide-angle get IN my shot. These are the human equivalent of street pigeons. I want to grab their camera and smash it.
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Hesman
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PostTue Nov 20, 2018 7:22 am 
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I think Iíll stick to the less traveled areas of Olympic National Park.

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You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time. - Abraham Lincoln
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. - Dr. Seuss
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RandyHiker
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PostTue Nov 20, 2018 7:32 am 
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Snuffy wrote:
I hear Yellowstone is nice in the winter.   smile.gif

Lots of snowmobiles
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Sculpin
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PostTue Nov 20, 2018 7:53 am 
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I suppose a thread like this could make folks feel better by having a place to vent their frustrations.  Except the people venting seem to be getting depressed.   huh.gif

I have a friend who is the sole permanent resident of Andrews, Oregon, in the Alvord Desert.  You could spend a lifetime exploring the Steens, the Alvord, and the surrounding ranges.  If you lived out there, I would imagine that after a few years to acclimate, you would welcome meeting someone on a ridgetop.  You might even grow out of your disgust for humanity!   rolleyes.gif

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Even my best friends, they don't know, that my job is turning lead into gold. When you hear that engine drone, I'm on the road again, and I'm searching for the philosopher's stone - Van Morrison
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Pahoehoe
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PostTue Nov 20, 2018 8:41 am 
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jasonracey wrote:
When I set up my tripod for a shot in national parks that are stupid crowded - Arches, Yosemite, Rocky Mountain - I've had people line up right next to me to try to get the same image. I've even had people who don't understand wide-angle get IN my shot. These are the human equivalent of street pigeons. I want to grab their camera and smash it.

You should read this again and think about if this is the type of person you are proud to be.

Do you think you have more right to take pictures in National Parks than others?  Their cameras should be smashed because they want to take a picture of the same thing as you?

You are the problem.  Your attitude is the problem.  You are not better than anyone else nor do you have more rights to access.
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Stefan
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PostTue Nov 20, 2018 9:12 am 
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Nice article.  However, I do find it very interesting they are pointing to several spots with increased traffic.  One is Yellowstone, and the other being Horseshoe Bend.

Has anyone been to Horseshoe Bend recently?  Do you know that about 60% of what I saw were Chinese Tourists.  Same goes for Yellowstone.  I camp, so not a problem, but you can't get rooms because a friend of mine who works for that concession says the Chinese Tourist companies book these places far out in advance....because well, these people do not have camping equipment.  Nothing against the Chinese--they have done well for themselves and it great to see.  Such is globalism.  They only way to stop overcrowding is stop having sex!  And that is not going to fly with a lot of people!

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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!



Joined: 25 Dec 2006
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Alleged Sockpuppet!
PostTue Nov 20, 2018 9:14 am 
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Sculpin wrote:
I suppose a thread like this could make folks feel better by having a place to vent their frustrations.  Except the people venting seem to be getting depressed.   huh.gif

I have a friend who is the sole permanent resident of Andrews, Oregon, in the Alvord Desert.  You could spend a lifetime exploring the Steens, the Alvord, and the surrounding ranges.  If you lived out there, I would imagine that after a few years to acclimate, you would welcome meeting someone on a ridgetop.  You might even grow out of your disgust for humanity!   rolleyes.gif

I moved back to a less traveled area with amenities.  I can and have started camping and exploring to the east, but wanted to go see some of the National Parks.  I really would like to go explore the top of the Grand Canyon.  I've been there twice and both times hiked down into it with no time to see the touristy things on the rim.  It was true at that time, that the farther down you got, the less circusy it was but I missed out on the architecture and views from the rim.  I am wondering if getting around on an e-bike would be better than driving or riding shuttles in other parks? 

And yes, I find it depressing because I finally have the time to do things and then read about areas being a mess.  Add that to the permits and reservations needed and I might as well just stay home and look at pictures. 

Hope it's still OK to camp on the forest near the Grand Canyon.

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What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be humanĖĖanimals and aliens are great possibilities
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uww
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PostTue Nov 20, 2018 9:30 am 
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Hesman wrote:
I think Iíll stick to the less traveled areas of Olympic National Park.

I was surprised that Olympic was the 8th most visited park, not too terribly far behind the two Y ones. Never seen it crazy crowded like Rainier, but I guess it is much bigger.
https://www.nps.gov/orgs/1207/02-28-2018-visitation-certified.htm
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Schenk
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PostTue Nov 20, 2018 9:33 am 
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RandyHiker wrote:
Snuffy wrote:
I hear Yellowstone is nice in the winter.   smile.gif

Lots of snowmobiles

I am pretty certain it is illegal for them to go off the groomed roads.
Yellowstone is a XC/touring skiers paradise...especially if you venture into the core and do some multi day tours.

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Nature exists with a stark indifference to humans' situation.
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Ski
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PostTue Nov 20, 2018 10:30 am 
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When I drove through Grand Canyon National Park in August 1981, the traffic was moving about 20 mph and bumper to bumper.
When I drove over "Going to the Sun" road at Glacier NP in 1994, on a sunny summer Sunday, the traffic was bumper to bumper and moving about 20 mph.
When I got over to the east end of Saint Mary Lake, there were at least 200 other people milling about, all jockeying for a better vantage point from which to take the iconic photo of the peaks at the west end of the lake. (The photo that comes up when you Google "Glacier National Park".)

The issue of crowds at National Parks is certainly nothing new. The level of craziness, fueled by the current "Instagram/Facebook/Snapchat" fad certainly is, but the crowds are not.

Before going into a state of panic, it might be considered that this current phenomenon could be a cyclical thing that will collapse under its own weight.

It's also quite possible that lands management agencies will increasingly resort to the implementation of quota systems and user limits to protect resources, as has been recently done in Oregon.

If our National Parks are being overrun by Chinese tourism, I'd submit that we're simply not charging them enough money to visit.

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I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Snuffy
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PostTue Nov 20, 2018 10:34 am 
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I listened to Lauren Danner do a podcast Monday night and talk about her North Cascades book. She gave a statistic that says 97% of National Park visitors never leave pavement.

Sounds like we all just need to be better at leaving the road.

Iíve been to Horseshoe, once. I went with no expectations of solitude. I expect solitude if I choose a lesser traveled location and have to work to get there. Otherwise, I know that I may be sharing with any number of other people.

Depressing? Maybe. But letís imagine how our indigenous people feel.

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Hesman
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PostTue Nov 20, 2018 10:40 am 
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UWW wrote:
Hesman wrote:
I think Iíll stick to the less traveled areas of Olympic National Park.

I was surprised that Olympic was the 8th most visited park, not too terribly far behind the two Y ones. Never seen it crazy crowded like Rainier, but I guess it is much bigger.
https://www.nps.gov/orgs/1207/02-28-2018-visitation-certified.htm

I read somewhere that since through traffic on 101 along Lake Crescent is counted in the grand total and it makes it appear that Olympic gets more visitation that it actually does.

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You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time. - Abraham Lincoln
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. - Dr. Seuss
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