Forum Index > Full Moon Saloon > The solution to trailhead car thieves?
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Brockton
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PostTue Dec 18, 2018 9:52 pm 
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Well, probably not.  Watch the whole thing (especially if you're at all an engineering nerd) but I haven't laughed so hard in a long time watching from about 5:30 onwards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=341&v=xoxhDk-hwuo
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RandyHiker
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PostTue Dec 18, 2018 10:15 pm 
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https://goo.gl/images/cUxRvy
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Pyrites
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PostWed Dec 19, 2018 12:15 am 
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RandyHiker wrote:
https://goo.gl/images/cUxRvy

Harvey Manning’s theory was old VW Bug, doors unlocked.
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Malachai Constant
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PostWed Dec 19, 2018 8:30 am 
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Hey we had one of those used to call it a Toyota Turtle sold it after 300,000 mi and 10 years for half of what we paid for it. A friend said it was the only car with a bank machine in the back of it.

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"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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Schenk
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PostWed Dec 19, 2018 8:35 am 
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Harvey's suggestion works fine for a local but for visitors from afar it doesn't work so hot
That really goes for any destination, not just PNW. I doubt anyone wants to take a road trip in an old beat up, probably undependable, anything. With speed limits up to 85mph on some Interstates, going under 60 can feel frustratingly slow . So you need something that can manage a decent cruising speed too.

Near popular hiking and recreation destinations perhaps there is incentive to start a small Mom-Pop storage facility so travelers could store valuables for a short period of time while they are parked at the trailhead. The business could be anywhere near the last civilized outpost on the way to the trailhead.

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Chief Joseph
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PostWed Dec 19, 2018 9:03 am 
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1990 Celica, doors unlocked, windows down, nothing of value inside. Yet it is still reliable.

Forest gnome keeps his vehicle full of garbage and misc junk, locks doors, stashes valuables in the woods, hasn't had a problem.

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Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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RandyHiker
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PostWed Dec 19, 2018 9:13 am 
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Schenk wrote:
Harvey's suggestion works fine for a local but for visitors from afar it doesn't work so hot

https://www.rentawreck.com/cheap-car-rental-seattle-WA.htm

Schenk wrote:
With speed limits up to 85mph on some Interstates, going under 60 can feel frustratingly slow .

Hiking covers ground far more slowly than riding a dirt bike or ATV.  That's part of the point.   I observe many drivers whizzing by at 10 over.  But for most destinations in Washington the actual time differential between driving at 60 and driving at 80 doesn't amount to that much.   Why does getting to the trailhead have to be a race? One of the aspects of hiking I enjoy is stepping out of the "rat race"
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Riverside Laker
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PostWed Dec 19, 2018 11:07 am 
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It used to bug me that people would drive fast and hike slow. But now I hike slow too (and still drive slow).
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olderthanIusedtobe
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PostWed Dec 19, 2018 11:12 am 
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IIRC some of the recent activity in the last year or two along the MLH included completely trashing vehicles.  Slashed tires, broke out all the windows, maybe tore off wipers or side mirrors, etc.  Driving a junker to the TH won't protect you  from vandalism like that.  I also seem to recall the vehicles that were trashed were the ones with nothing inside for the thieves to grab, thus it appears it was vindictive and/or malicious.  What are you supposed to do about that?

I wouldn't exactly call it a road trip, but sometimes I'll day hike 2 or 3 consecutive days and car bivy in between.  Thus I need at least a little bit of gear with me, some cooking stuff, sleeping bag.  I've seen it suggested, but I don't like the idea of hiding my stuff in the bushes near the car.  That doesn't seem particularly secure to me, especially if someone happens to be scoping out the TH.
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Chief Joseph
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PostWed Dec 19, 2018 11:47 am 
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Gnome actually buries his gear under dirt, leaves, bark, etc. He hasn't lost an item yet.

I am annoyed by the slow hikers-fast drivers going past my property in Verlot, and most of them drive Subarus. huh.gif

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Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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Schenk
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PostWed Dec 19, 2018 2:08 pm 
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Hmmmm....Washington isn't the only state with trail head crime. Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, Nevada, Utah, etc...all have speed limits on large sections of interstate at 80mph, or higher. Even more miles of Interstate have a speed limit of 70mph or higher.
YES, I want to drive 80 or 85 when it is legal! Screw the pavement...get me to the trail head!
Who wants to spend more time on asphalt than necessary when time off work, or away from other responsibilities, is so precious?

And for a second question: Why do you present rent-a-wreck as if just anyone can afford to fly to a destination and rent a wreck?
This is not to mention that very few destinations are going to have that option. https://www.rentawreck.com/locations.htm
Big deal you're S.O.L. if you want to hike in all of Idaho, all of Oregon, all of W. Montana, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico...Not a great option.

And, I agree with your statement that hiking is desirably slower than ATV driving, or some other forms of trail travel. And I think that people would indeed rather spend more time on the trail experiencing the outdoors, than driving to the dang trail head.

Hiking is one of the recreational activities a low income person can usually afford...unless they get vandalized or ripped off at the trailhead.
It is easy to think only in terms of our individual needs and experiences. We could all stand to consider and realize that not everyone's situation is the same.

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Bernardo
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PostThu Dec 20, 2018 5:00 am 
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The first step is to recognize that a problem exists.  Even on this hikers forum some folks indicated that this is no big deal.  If that's what people think, there won't be any resources devoted and we'll continue with the status quo.

That said, there were some prosecutions recently that showed these aren't risk free crimes.
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neek
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PostThu Dec 20, 2018 5:36 am 
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One word: MagnaVolt
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RandyHiker
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PostThu Dec 20, 2018 9:03 am 
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Schenk wrote:
It is easy to think only in terms of our individual needs and experiences. We could all stand to consider and realize that not everyone's situation is the same.

I experienced a trailhead break in 1975.  So it's been a long time since I had the delusion that a car at a trailhead was "secure".  Getting broken into is a violation for sure.  But other than being pissed off, what's your solution?  And forget about any solution that eliminates criminals by locking them up.  America already has the highest incarceration rate in the world.  We are already doing that.
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Schenk
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PostThu Dec 20, 2018 1:21 pm 
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RandyHiker wrote:
But other than being pissed off, what's your solution?  And forget about any solution that eliminates criminals by locking them up.  America already has the highest incarceration rate in the world.  We are already doing that.

Fair question, but what is wrong with being pissed off about property crime?

To answer: As noted many times, on many other similar topics before, there is no single solution, but turning your head and saying it is no big deal is certainly NOT a move in the right direction.
Lumping all punishment into the "incarceration" category is a far to broad sweeping characterization of the available options for punishment.
There is:
1) Restitution/Community Service
2) fines
3) impounding of any vehicles and tools used in the committing of the crimes
4) Banishment from State or Federal land? (might not be an option)
5) And finally, incarceration for failure to meet the Court's order/sentencing in these cases.


Another possible part of a solution: If we take away the paths for criminals to convert stolen property into cash or drugs that would help too.
So, therefore I also think a closer watch and regulation (if that is the right term) on Pawn Shops and other mechanisms (eBay, Craigslist, etc.) for criminals to turn ill gotten booty into cash would help immensely.
In this day and age it would not be that super difficult to have a central database listing stolen property, at least at a regional level to begin with, eventually expanding to the  National level. Many stolen items could be identified (serial numbered, or unique items being the easiest to identify) when some criminal tries to sell them and could be arrested/interviewed/whatever is appropriate for the specific situation.

Regarding incarceration rates; why do you think America has a high incarceration rate?
We do need to lock up many criminals, but IMO we have a high incarceration rate because we have the WRONG laws.
We incarcerate for many of the wrong reasons and fail to help the certain percentage of criminals who need mental help. For example: Trail head theft should lead to punishment, and perhaps even incarceration, but being caught in Texas with a pot seed stuck in your car's floor mats should not.
And when we do put people into prison (not mere "jail") we effectively are putting people into "Crime School" where they learn from other criminals how to be better criminal. We should concentrate on ways to get these less severe criminals some help to develop skills and habits that will help keep them on the right track after their sentence has been completed rather than immerse them in an environment where they will expand their criminal tendencies..

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