[hikermike]

Being "older", much, I've been concerned about getting pack weights down. That with switching to trail running shoes has made a new life for me! So far I've gotten my pack weight down to 24 pounds but trying to figure how to get lower. The pack weights I've seen fail to include what's in the pack. Those 15 pound loads...do they include the 3 liters of water and 3 days of food that I do? I'm trying to set a reasonable goal. Am comfortable with where I've gotten but concerned I can do better. Thanks!

[Chief Joseph]

In my limited experience I have learned that a good quality pack that FITS CORRECTLY is more important than pack weight. I have found that if a pack empty weight is say 2.5 pounds, then you can carry up to 10 times that, or 25 lbs. I would say that most people who claim very light pack weight are not including water, just their filter weight and minimal food. Myself for a 2-3 day backpacking trip, I am satisfied with 25 pounds total, maybe a bit more and have no problem carrying it.

[awilsondc]

Ultra light pack weights almost always do NOT include food, water, and fuel. Right away, you should not be carrying 3L of water. Carry one, maybe two liters and a lightweight filter like the BeFree or Sawyer Mini and fill up at creek crossings. Water weights 2.2 lbs per liter. Going from carrying 3 to 1 saves you 4.4 pounds!!! I really like Adventure Alan's content and he has a 9 pound pack list you can see here.

[neek]

IME, most people who long for a lighter pack (or bike or whatever) would be better off (from both a health and financial perspective) losing a few pounds from their gut. (Yeah I know how popular that is. Heaven forbid wishing health and happiness on anyone.) But I second the claim about the importance of fit, and agree it's silly to carry much water unless you're desert hiking. Learn to properly hydrate before/after, and (safely) practice pushing your body to extremes. There are many threads here about UL backpacking, hydration, etc., so seek them out and see if you have any specific questions that haven't already been discussed. (+1 on the running shoes--boots are a good way to set yourself up for an ankle sprain, although are important for snow/ice.) Opinions run strong on the proper balance between light and safe, so be prepared to take things with a grain of salt and base your decisions on your own experience and research.

[Chief Joseph]

There was an excellent thread about 2 years ago titled, "How much does your Big 3 weigh?"...or something like that. People listed their weights of their tent, bag, and pad. I can't find the thread...anyone?

[seattlenativemike]

[DigitalJanitor]

[Chief Joseph]

I agree, luckily my raft is light. Here is the excellent pack weight thread... https://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7993951&highlight=backpack+weight

[Cyclopath]

I very everybody has a few heavy indulgences. One thing I've noticed is when I have my tent and bag packed up, the pack doesn't weigh much. It's all the other crap. Clothing can be a big one. So can random stuff like keys etc, not the keys themselves but all of it together.

[bk]

More talk:

• 2009: Gear Talk > how low can you go?

• 2011-2015: Gear Talk > What does your "big four" weigh? Cost? Me? 4.25 lbs, $650 (posted earlier)

• 2012: Gear Talk > Decreasing pack weight-your ideas

• 2013: Trail Talk > to Ultralight or not?

• 2015: Food & Grub > How many liters does a days worth of food take up?

• 2016: Gear Talk > Lightweight Backpack Options?

[BigBrunyon]

I get my essentials down to light as possible but not cause i need a light pack!!! less weight spent on essentials means more weight can be spend on non-essentials!! like beer, fishin' gear, ice axe, dumbells to work out in camp, etc!!! I ain't afraid o' no weight!!! myself? i'm 5-11 and only 150 pounds!!

[Chief Joseph]

I agree ^^^...I have a Gregory Baltoro that weighs 5.5 lbs dry and I can easily carry 50+ lbs in it. However, I like to take my younger, stronger son with me, let him wear that pack and I wear my Gregory Z-55 and about 25 lbs..winning!

[williswall]

UL is more related to experience and philosophy than just getting lighter stuff. I have been involved in exploring UL since the 90's, and much of what I do on a UL trip is entirely based on experience. If I'm thinking of a 3 day Wonderland, and if the weather forecast is favorable, then I can take a minimal sleeping system (ZPacks Pocket Tarp; 3 ozs, Bivy Bag; 4 to 6 ozs, NeoXLite; 12 ozs, 50 degree quilt; 9.8 ozs) along with clothing, which always includes some manner of puffy, and minimal kit. One of the reasons I can go so light is not just because of the equipment, but all the stuff I don't bring. I don't cook, so I can pack 3 days of food along with my sleep kit in a smallish day pack (1800 C.I.) and a small front pack. When I did a 5 day circumnavigation of Glacier Peak, I carried more food and a warmer quilt and used a larger pack, but my total weight, including carried water and food, was under 15 pounds. Consider the saying that "People pack their fears"....through experience you can understand what your minimal kit should be based on the trip, circumstances and weather, without compromising safety. Even on day hikes I carry clothing and gear that will get me through immobilization and crappy weather for a night or two and I know I won't die. I also have a high tolerance for pain and discomfort and this plays a huge part in individual kits. People that don't have this proclivity will want to carry items that provide more comfort, and this can be done and still have a relatively light load. The obsession with UL is rather silly in some aspects, with gram counting for the sake of shaving every last ounce; just read Reddit Ultralight for prime examples. My philosophy is, if I can put on a pack and not really notice it on my back, meaning I don't have to take breaks to alleviate shoulder pain etc, then it's light enough. Also, the benefit of carrying a light load (under 20 pounds) means my packs don't need load support and can easily hover around one pound, give or take. When your equipment and food/water starts exceeding 20 pounds, then the pack needs to carry this weight with architecture that allows the load to be transferred to the hips etc. There's no good reason to be carrying over 20 pounds and suffering under a UL pack that is not made for higher loads. Of course, this all comes back to experience. Once you understand your body and mind, you can adjust your load accordingly, taking the minimal amount of weight with peace of mind. This may mean 35+ pounds or 8....like carrying skis and boots and high altitude cold weather gear. UL won't hack it. Here's an example of basic gear I would take on a typical trail backpacking multi day trip: Tent: ZPacks Plexamid (14.8 ozs) for solo, ZPacks Duplex (22 ozs) for 2 Bag: Anywhere from a 50 degree set up (9.8 ozs) to 15 degrees (30 ozs) Pad: Half a Z type pad (5-8 ozs) to XTherm (15 ozs) Pack: less than a pound to 2 pounds Clothing: Beyond base layers (only for sleeping) I usually have a windshirt, puffy jacket, gloves, balaclava and thermal hat, at least one pair xtra socks, not including sleeping, sun hat Other: sunglasses, BeFree filter or Squeeze, one liter bottle, poles (5.6 ozs for the pair) or carbon staff, spoon, minimal foot kit, camera, pack towel Just looking at the Big 4, I can have a tent, quilt, inflatable pad and pack for 3 pounds. In fact, the Plexamid at 14.8 ozs (not including a few ounces for stakes) is lighter than many of my tarp/bivy bag combos with full sit up room in a fully enclosed shelter. Believe me I've tried many things over the decades for equipment, clothing and footwear, and figured out through trial and error what works for me. This includes longer trips or cold weather outings. This allows me to confidently pare my kit down to be comfortable and safe. I would never assume that what I use would work for anyone else, which is where your own explorations and experience come into play to determine your own needs. Forums like this one make it a lot easier to gather information than when I started in the 80's for sure. And in case you think I'm always light weight, I am contemplating a trip in 2020, a ski across the Greenland ice cap west to east, where I'd be dragging a pulk that would start out at over 200 pounds, quite a departure but definitely necessary for the conditions and length of trip. It just, "always depends."

[Backpacker Joe]

I once spent three days in the Enchantments carrying 17 pounds! LOL.

[Bedivere]

I loved my Z-55. Probably my favorite pack of all time. It's worn out now, though and there aren't any Gregory dealers in Seattle that carry their full line of packs. I ended up buying an Osprey 65L pack to replace it. Very comfy, but kind of heavy and wayyyyyyyyyyy too many straps & zippers & fussy bits. I just could not find a simple, bare-bones 65L pack with a comfortable suspension around here. I would very much like to try out their Optic, Stout, and Paragon series packs.