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anonwums
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PostMon Apr 08, 2019 11:39 am 
Technique question: How do people sidehill in boots + crampons on hard snow? I understand that if the snow is softish, you can kick steps which I've done successfully many times. But what do you do when the snow is quite hard, sometimes so hard that you can barely get the spike of the axe into? Obviously, you'd use crampons in that setting. I've tried it using the standard kicking steps method, but my ankles get super slanted that I sometimes get off balance if I try to keep all of the points in. My uphill leg sometimes get quite bent, making it quite exhausting and also hard to move without getting a bit off balance too. I'm thinking of slopes like this one. In that picture, the snow is obviously softer than what I'm talking about. All of the videos I've watched show ascent/descent with crampons. None of them explain sidehilling.

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iron
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PostMon Apr 08, 2019 12:07 pm 
when snow is that hard, it's 95% of the time late season which means large suncups are everywhere. find the flat portion of the suncup with each step and you're good to go. for truly steep, scary stuff, you're front-pointing anyway.

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anonwums
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PostMon Apr 08, 2019 12:42 pm 
I've definitely traversed slopes where there were no suncups. How do you sidehill using front pointing? Lean into the slope and dagger your axe and slowly move sideways?

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iron
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PostMon Apr 08, 2019 12:43 pm 
yep. wear steel pons if you're worried.

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iron
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PostMon Apr 08, 2019 12:47 pm 
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williswall
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PostMon Apr 08, 2019 1:20 pm 
If the snow is that hard, you probably won't be able to arrest....I'd stay off it and go another day. Of course, if you must go, then you can chop steps.

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Randito
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PostMon Apr 08, 2019 4:17 pm 
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anonwums
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PostMon Apr 08, 2019 4:57 pm 
You edge in crampons? I always learned not to do that. Which foot edges in? I imagine the uphill one.

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iron
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PostMon Apr 08, 2019 5:00 pm 
both feet can edge. top is easier due to angles and foot height relative to snow. you just need a few teeth in a little bit to make life happy.

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Cougar
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PostMon Apr 15, 2019 12:08 am 
Yes you can edge with both feet using just the inside points. If the slope is really steep and icey being roped up is a safe way to go since it would be tough to self arrest in those conditions very quick. I wouldn't recommend going it alone in that terrain though I have in my distant past and somehow managed to live to tell about it. Another way which is an almost lost art today is to chop steps with the adze on your use axe. That's what it's there for. It's kind of tough with the modern shorties everybody uses now and it's slow but better safe than sorry in this case. biggrin.gif

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Randito
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PostMon Apr 15, 2019 7:41 pm 
Cougar wrote:
If the slope is really steep and icey being roped up is a safe way to go since it would be tough to self arrest in those conditions very quick
Rope alone does nothing-- numerous parties on Mt Hood have "dental flossed" the Pearly Gates when a rope team of three has had a member slip. If you rope up, setup anchors and effective belays --otherwise IMHO you are putting everyone at risk if one person slips. Arresting a fall on steep snow is very different from arresting a crevasse fall -- where friction from the rope cutting into the edge of the crevasse provides significant help.

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graywolf
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PostMon Apr 15, 2019 8:04 pm 
RandyHiker wrote:
https://www.climbing.com/skills/french-technique/
This is how I learned to climb.

The only easy day was yesterday...
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graywolf
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PostMon Apr 15, 2019 8:05 pm 
Cougar wrote:
Another way which is an almost lost art today is to chop steps with the adze on your use axe. That's what it's there for. It's kind of tough with the modern shorties everybody uses now and it's slow but better safe than sorry in this case. biggrin.gif
Which is why both of my ice axes are 70cm. This length is also perfect for me for the French climbing technique that Randy referred to.

The only easy day was yesterday...
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